Musings re: SBK Displacement

[derby]

oddly enough, the 848 is attractive to me precisely because it's "enough..."

i love excessive power, but the "smaller" bike is more floggable.

(fwiw, i chose a gsxr750 over the 1k, too)

[Speeddog]

IMO, anything much over 100HP at the rear wheel is overkill for the street.
My S4 nudged 103 or so, and it can make things happen plenty quick enough.
YMMV.

[junior varsity]

I don't plan on leaving superbikes at casa 'memphis street legal. I don't really find comfort at stoplights on a superbike, for me its a track toy.

I guess I feel a pretty large hole is in the Ducati lineup. It seems to me that it used to be filled by the supersport - faired and lower power. (plus: stupid easy to work on, like the Monster).

[derby]

I guess I feel a pretty large hole is in the Ducati lineup. It seems to me that it used to be filled by the supersport - faired and lower power. (plus: stupid easy to work on, like the Monster).

well now you're talking about issues bigger than just displacement.

[junior varsity]

I guess its partly the similarity in numbers between the 848/851/888 that gets me, and the hole that bikes like the 748 used to fill.

Guess I'll make my own.  

[Speeddog]

Trackbike.

Oh.

Time to re-read thread from that perspective.

[Triple J]

I bought the 848 over the 1098 because it was all the power I wanted...and it was cheaper. The 1098 also has a lot more torque than the 848...hp isn't everything.

If I had to do it again, I'd still buy the 848 over the 1198. Maybe I'm weird.  

Even then after owning it for a while I thought the 848 had too much power for the street.  It wasn't a control issue or anything, it just wasn't fun to ride on the street. Neglecting the comfort (or lack thereof) issue, I rarely got it out of 3rd for fear of getting a ticket...and any fun amount of acceleration had you well past the speed limit in a hurry. Twisties were fun...but unless they were high speed twisties (see previous problem) my MTS was more fun. I have no idea why someone would buy an 1198 (or any litre bike) for the street.  

In the end I only liked the 848 on the track, but it was also too expensive for me to be a track-bike...so I sold it and got a 748. Obviously not the fastest track bike...but fast enough for me. 

[junior varsity]

That's what I like about the 748 and even the 749, still lots of power, but in a bit more affordable (especially now) package.

The 848 Dark, though, does raise my eyebrows.

Just makes me wish there was a competitive offering from Ducati at a bit lower price point and a bit lower 'engine'. I suppose I've inhaled too many exhaust fumes, but that is what I'm wanting in a "new" (maybe air-cooled) superbike/supersport.

[derby]

That's what I like about the 748 and even the 749, still lots of power, but in a bit more affordable (especially now) package.

but the 748 and 749 were 13-14k new in their day.

The 848 Dark, though, does raise my eyebrows.

Just makes me wish there was a competitive offering from Ducati at a bit lower price point and a bit lower 'engine'. I suppose I've inhaled too many exhaust fumes, but that is what I'm wanting in a "new" (maybe air-cooled) superbike/supersport.

i'll be surprised if ducati goes back down that road. iirc, they had lots of issues selling their old stock of ss1000 a few years back.

if you're really aching, there's always the millona:

http://www.ncrfactory.com/eng/html/18.00.shtml

then again, those make an 848 (or even an 1198) seem downright affordable.

[MadDuck]

oddly enough, the 848 is attractive to me precisely because it's "enough..."

i love excessive power, but the "smaller" bike is more floggable.

(fwiw, i chose a gsxr750 over the 1k, too)

I did almost the same thing. Sold a finicky 999 that basically wasn't happy with anything under 50 mph and only loved life over 70 mph.

Sold it for an '08 GSXR 750 ---- wonderful bike but I missed the v twin. 

Ended up with an 848 that I love dearly. Yeah, I miss the big torque rush but only occasionally. I have way more fun on the streets than I ever did with the 999. But, if I could have both I would.

[Speeddog]

I've ridden a 1098 for about a mile.
Same for a handful of 996's, 998's.
I've ridden an 848 a little, maybe 150 miles total, but not been able to sample the 'legs' 'cause it's still in break-in.
For an SBK, it feels like most realistic street machine of the bunch.

I've ridden 900SS's, M1k's, S2R1k's.
Haven't ridden a 1kSS, but from the above, I've got a pretty good idea of what it'd be like.
Not as comfortable a riding position as the 848, but a good bit less heat on the legs.
I'm sure they're a ball when ridden hard.
Just not many people want 'em.

[NAKID]

I've ridden an 848 a little, maybe 150 miles total, but not been able to sample the 'legs' 'cause it's still in break-in.

Screw the break in, ride the piss out of it...

[RetroSBK]

Couple of things...

THe 851 made about 92 at the wheels, the 888 about 96 stock. So the 851 was raced as a 904 and a 926, and then the 888 was raced as a 944 and then a 984. The 1993 AMA superbike (most of 93-94 was 955) made about 138 at the tire. The 984 engine made WAY to much power for the cases and it came apart often. At this time a superbike was based around a 750, and this was a HUGE advantage, but really only in torque, which is drive. so the Duc woudl motor away off the corners, and get sucked up at the straights (look to brainerd, RA, Daytona of those years)

Then with the new engine, came the ability to make a big engine, and the 996 was around. Early 94 was still 955, 996 was illegal, so it was never used in competition (when there was a risk of a tear down) the new heads and bigger cases made huge advances, which were then quickly surpassed by power output, and we went right back to deforming the engine cases, which, as you can imagine, cut engine life quite a bit. Chilli's WSB Laguna Seca Winning bike made 184 at the tire with our race gas here in the US, which was a BUNCH better than the spec fuel could do.

With the Narrow Head engine came a series of its own problems, but HP output never really jumped by such huge gains. Where a GSXR1000 could easily make 210hp, and do so for an entire season, the 999 engine never really could scratch the 200 mark, and it suffered from being over revved to try to make it up. The only answer is displacement.

so the 1100 and 1200 come along, to compete with a bunch of 1000CC superbikes that can make 230plus hp in a hearbeat. Understand that a production bike, with a full system, and some simple mods and a remap will make 185plus hp, and I have seen a gsxr1000 at 192rwhp with no mods other than whats above, the head was never off the bike. An 1198 with a full system and an ECU makes about 171-173rwhp, so thats a lot closer than they have ever been before...

The 4 cyl bikes make a lot more torque, but are much harder on the tire, overwhelming the drive and turning it to spin, so they come out of the corner about the same.


I do disagree with one thing... I think 170hp is just about right on the street. after riding a 600 and 848 , etc, I think there really isnt a point o ride a smaller dispalcement bik eon the street when a liter bike is availible. The big bike is as light, much faster, and much much easier to ride.  You dont have to go fast in the corners, as you can make it up on the straights, and most of the time, if you are going to crash, its in the corners.

Will

[Speeddog]

Screw the break in, ride the piss out of it...

Not my bike.

[derby]

Not my bike.

...and if it was?