Electric Motorcycles: Why?

[Porsche Monkey]

Or imagine wifey needing you to run an errand or two on your way home from work that takes you outside of your mileage limit.  I live in Texas, aint nothing close in Texas.

[LowThudd]

Personally, I think the main issue is that if you have an electric bike and you run out of battery, it's going to take a good while to recharge (>1hr) unlike simply filling a tank (which takes a minute or two).  Imagine wanting to leave work, but not being able to because the bike still needs to charge...that would suck.

Quick charging is something that is very near to happening now. The trick is that the batteries must be able to handle the greater current required. Litium Ion batteries can be quick charged, but there are no charging stations. The charger required would likely run  on 220V, so having the charger in the car wouldn't help most people. There needs to be a market for charging stations before it is economically feasable to do it. So, again, buying into the technology greatly reduces the wait time on newer technologies like charging stations.

[superjohn]

Personally, I think the main issue is that if you have an electric bike and you run out of battery, it's going to take a good while to recharge (>1hr) unlike simply filling a tank (which takes a minute or two).  Imagine wanting to leave work, but not being able to because the bike still needs to charge...that would suck.

This is why I think electric cars are crap, but a motorcycle pulls this sort of duty less, so it'd be slightly more viable

Quick charging and swappable batteries like the Czyst (sp?) would be nice.

[stopintime]

Roskva

350 lbs, 94 bhp, top speed 112 mph, 40 - 60 miles range depending on battery spec/price.

[PhilB]

Electric bikes (and cars, etc.) will suck as long as we have to use batteries to run them.  We have known for decades how to build an electric car that equals or exceeds an ICE vehicle in every aspect, except that it has a 1500lb "fuel tank" that holds 2 gallons of fuel and has to be refilled by an eyedropper for hours.  Lithium battery technology has brought that down to maybe a 500lb tank that holds that 2 gallons, but that's still an order of magnitude worse for energy storage than actual fuel is.

Making a quick-charge battery would solve half that problem and make them almost practical for a lot more people -- you still would have limited range (or massive weight) and have to fill up more often, but at least you wouldn't be stuck for hours wherever you ran out.

So the core problem is how to store electricity.  As WetDuc said below, solid state hydrogen storage is a good possiblity, especially if it can be made from something light like a CF nanotube matrix.  Until we get something like that, or otherwise improve our electricity storage technology by about 10 times, the electric vehicle will not be usefully competitive with our current tech except in a few specific and limited applications.

I think we should be pouring money into electricity storage research anyway.  We have several alternative and renewable ways already of generating electricity; most of them (solar, wind, tides, etc.) are impractical exactly because we can't store their output, and they only make electricity when their conditions are right, not on demand.  Our entire grid is run on demand, ramping electricity production up and down as needed, because we don't have anything that even resembles a technology for large scale mass storage of electricity.

Developing such a technology would make our existing system FAR more efficient and robust -- we could size the whole system for average need instead of peak need, and we could have a stockpile of electriity as backup in case of a plant going down or whatever.  It would also make many of our known alternative generation technologies far more practical, and make electric vehicles actually useful.  Why so few people are working on this, I have no idea.

So, to answer the original question -- no , I have no interest in electric bikes (or cars) unless and until they can store enough energy to be flexible and useful.  Until that happens, they are a fad -- toys with little practical value for solving our energy-related problems.

PhilB

[bdub]

I work 2.5 miles from my house. I "should" ride my bicycle but I don't. I take either my '88 F150 or my duc. I would like to have an electric motorcycle so I could charge it on work's dime.

[PhilB]

I work 2.5 miles from my house. I "should" ride my bicycle but I don't. I take either my '88 F150 or my duc. I would like to have an electric motorcycle so I could charge it on work's dime.

That sounds like a reasonable application for that.  But then, how long would it take you to save enough doing that to pay for the vehicle?  Or to make up for the resources and pollution of its manufacture?  That's about a tank of gas a month for the Duc.  Less than $200 saved a year.  And you're registering and insuring an additional vehicle, which will eat up much of that savings right there.

This is the problem -- it's similar to when someone says he wants to buy a motorcycle to save money on gas compared to his car or truck.  When you run the actual numbers, the cost of running the additional vehicle almost never gets recovered; it usually only makes sense if the new vehicle is a *replacement* for an existing one.  So electric motorcycles (or cars) will make sense for very few people until they can be a genuine replacement for what most of us use now, and how we use them.

PhilB

[polivo]

Im definetly interested in electric bikes. Something tells me these electric motors will have much less service assoceiated with them.  Therefore, I assume less overall dealer maintenance costs.  It wont be going in for the 600 mile tune up for valves, etc etc. There wont be any oil changes. no gaskets. Nice smooth electric motor. No EFI, no spark plugs, no carborator, no fuel lines to corrode. No gas that goes bad over the winter.

Yea, im definetly interested in electric motorcycles.  Im sure it would be weird to ride a motorycle that makes no noise.  As much as we are not willing to admit it, half of riding a bike is about how it makes you feel. That sound and vibration is part of the visceral experience.

[ducatiz]

Im interested in electrics the say way I'm interested in nuclear powered vehicles.

If it can be done in a manner that is as cost effective, easy to use, and environmentally sound as an ICE, then why not?

Nothing is though.

[SDRider]

This is true,

but in the end it's the consumer that drives all of this.
If everyone went out and put a windmill and solar panels are their house. every new construction was built with solar and wind power and not even hooked to the power grid, how long do you think these polluting power sources would continue.

to me it's a matter of us finding better technology that can do the job without raping the planet.

Agreed.  There are finite resources on this planet and the only species on the planet who is upsetting the natural order of things is man.  This is not up for debate.  It is a fact.

I am seriously interested in solar power for my house and I live in an ideal area to make this a worthwhile investment.  I have ridden a bicycle to work at various times throughout my life.  Being car free isn't really an option for me but fuel efficient vehicles definitely interest me.

[NorDog]

Raping the planet?

Upsetting the natural order?

 

[Ducatamount]

Back in the day,some people said they would never give up their horse for an ICE vehicle but with time came improvements and reliability.
 Most of you guys are looking at it from a street/distance perspective.
For an urban environment it makes sense.
Also for a MX/Trials  situation it would be ideal.You could have tracks/courses anywhere without the major complaint of noise.
  
 +1 on Phil's thoughts on "stockpiling" electricity.

[ducatiz]

Back in the day,some people said they would never give up their horse for an ICE vehicle but with time came improvements and reliability.
 Most of you guys are looking at it from a street/distance perspective.
For an urban environment it makes sense.
Also for a MX/Trials  situation it would be ideal.You could have tracks/courses anywhere without the major complaint of noise.
 
 +1 on Phil's thoughts on "stockpiling" electricity.

Electrics in a purely urban environment can't hurt, but then again, their purpose is defeated in a place like Manhattan where there is a subway or bus stop every 100 yds.  (well, not the upper east side until 2014?).. 

Even though it helps with emissions etc, you still have the space and congestion issue in an urban environment. 

Moreover, can you imagine the taxi fleet in NYC going electric?  Most of those cars are operated for 16-20 hours at a time.  They do oil changes weekly.  That's where you'd get the biggest bang for the buck in maintenance and emissions, but there isn't room in the city to have a duplicated fleet while the batteries are charged.

[SDRider]

Raping the planet?

Upsetting the natural order?

 

Earth is just one big biosphere.  And yes, we do have an impact on it.

[Ducatamount]

Electrics in a purely urban environment can't hurt, but then again, their purpose is defeated in a place like Manhattan where there is a subway or bus stop every 100 yds.  (well, not the upper east side until 2014?).. 

Even though it helps with emissions etc, you still have the space and congestion issue in an urban environment. 

Moreover, can you imagine the taxi fleet in NYC going electric?  Most of those cars are operated for 16-20 hours at a time.  They do oil changes weekly.  That's where you'd get the biggest bang for the buck in maintenance and emissions, but there isn't room in the city to have a duplicated fleet while the batteries are charged.

I think I remember reading there were over 100,000 electric cars operating in NYC in the early 1900's.(I could be wrong   )