M695 / S2R800 / M696 clutch parts (all APTC type)

[BK_856er]

At 15k miles of hard use the clutch in my M695 is showing slippage at WOT in the higher gears.  Some of it might be due to my new light flywheel or the different brand/weight of (also correct) synthetic blend oil the shop used.  Nonetheless, I need to start thinking about clutch pack replacement.  The M695 uses the APTC "slipper" wet clutch and I'll likely stick with it as opposed to changing over to something else.  I read the great threads on hub nuts and APTC workings.

The parts diagrams show that the M695 and S2R800 share the same clutch pack and springs.  Search function showed that one person researched it and learned that the S2R800 used stronger springs?  Can anyone shed some light on that?  Barnett lists the same clutch pack and spring set part numbers for the M695, S2R800 and M696.  The Barnett pack is about $200 and the Ducati pack is about $300.

What'll give me the most reliable and stout clutch?  Ducati clutch pack and (presumably stronger than OE) Barnett springs?

Interested in hearing info and experiences with APTC clutch changes.  

BK

[He Man]

Heavy duty spring for heavy duty power. It helps push the plates together to prevent them from slipping and burning out prematurely.

I had a bad experience with Barnett dry clutch packs, and im definitely not the only one. They suck for street use and are literally race application only. They lasted ~1,000 miles for me. From what people tell me, they last about 2 track days.

Ive heard good stuff for wet clutch though, but i never used it so dont take my word for it.

[Howie]

15K is not a lot of miles for a wet clutch.  A light flywheel will not cause the clutch to slip, but oil is a possibility, particularly if this happened right after service.  What oil did the shop use?  What oil did you use before?  Do you have sufficient play in the clutch lever?  Insufficient free play will cause slip.  You want 1-1.5 mm.

The parts manual shows the same part# for the clutch springs on both the 800 and 695, 797.1.022.1A.   

[BK_856er]

15K is not a lot of miles for a wet clutch.  A light flywheel will not cause the clutch to slip, but oil is a possibility, particularly if this happened right after service.  What oil did the shop use?  What oil did you use before?  Do you have sufficient play in the clutch lever?  Insufficient free play will cause slip.  You want 1-1.5 mm.

The parts manual shows the same part# for the clutch springs on both the 800 and 695, 797.1.022.1A.   

I use Mobil MX4T 10-40 full synthetic exclusively.  The shop that did the recent work (nichols) used Golden Spectro 20-50 synthetic blend.  Play at the lever seems good - CRG levers have been on for a couple years.  My theory was that the recent engine work (light flywheel, valve adjust, trim adjust, cams degreed) boosted the power just enough to push things over the edge.  Maybe the different oil contributed somehow.  I do make extensive use of my clutch and the 15k is ALL in the twisties.  Perhaps I should fill with my regular oil and see how it behaves?

BK

[DarkStaR]

I notice clutch slip when I get my bike back from nichols also.

When I do my oil changes between the services that nichols does, I use the Platinum Spectro 20-50 FULL synthetic, and it doesn't seem to slip as much.  I have an oil change due soon, so I'll report again after.

I really doubt your clutch slipping is due to extra power from the mods you mention.  Also, the flywheel doesn't increase HP much...if at all...I checked. 

I'm thinking about getting a clutch from a non APCT bike.  Maybe the Barnett 800sie kit.

[BK_856er]

I notice clutch slip when I get my bike back from nichols also.

When I do my oil changes between the services that nichols does, I use the Platinum Spectro 20-50 FULL synthetic, and it doesn't seem to slip as much.  I have an oil change due soon, so I'll report again after.

I really doubt your clutch slipping is due to extra power from the mods you mention.  Also, the flywheel doesn't increase HP much...if at all...I checked. 

I'm thinking about getting a clutch from a non APCT bike.  Maybe the Barnett 800sie kit.

Interesting comment about your post-nichols service slippage.  Maybe I can hold off on a new clutch pack!  My intention was to get my usual oil back in there sooner rather than later anyway.  Yeah, I know the light flywheel does not add power, but I was thinking more about internal engine dynamics and cylinder pulses helping to break the plates free and initiate slippage somehow with the super-light aluminum flywheel.  Sounds far-fetched and I'm just inventing theoretical explanations!

What's the scoop on the 800sie kit?

BK

[Howie]

Hard to believe the Golden Spectro would cause slip, but it is cheaper than a new clutch pack.  Have you thought about going back to Nichols and talking to them?  They would want to know if the oil they are using is causing the problem.  They also might know if the 800ei springs and/or clutch pack fit without issues. 

[ducpainter]

I used Spectro oils in all my wet clutch 2 strokes and never experienced any slip.

[rule62]

At about 15K I noticed the same slippage you mentioned.  I also have a lightened flywheel, FWIW.  Different oil didn't really make a difference.  I was thinking about going with heavier springs from a 750 or 800 (they'll fit), but wound up swapping the entire clutch for a non-APTC one from an 800ss.  Engagement is awesome in comparison to the APTC. 

The lightened flywheel has been called "the poor man's slipper clutch" because of how easy it makes rev-matching.  The APTC is not a true slipper (more of a gimmick IMO).  It saves the n00bs from some trouble if they ham-fist a down shift now and again.  I have no reservations whatsoever about getting rid of it.  I'm not the only one.

Clutch packs for APTC units are about $100 more than the standard clutch too.  In the long run that's a lot of dough to shell out.

[Lord_Bragle]

I bet your clutch isn't worn out at all BK, more probably its something like a bent push rod jamming inside its tunnel in the primary shaft, or some dirt's got in the works (this happened to my bike once and I got horrendous slippage) or as others have said… it's the hydraulic part of the system playing up, or you got wrong oil in it.

I recently dismantled the clutch on my S2R â€"1700 miles and its still in pristine nick with loads of wear left, it makes me think that the wet clutches might be very long lasting, I hope so too, because you have to buy the complete clutch and it aint cheap I belive.

[BK_856er]

Hard to believe the Golden Spectro would cause slip, but it is cheaper than a new clutch pack.  Have you thought about going back to Nichols and talking to them?  They would want to know if the oil they are using is causing the problem.  They also might know if the 800ei springs and/or clutch pack fit without issues. 

Yep, nichols is a great shop.  I want to bring it up with them and get their input, but they're closed Sun/Mon.  I was initially resignd to a new clutch pack, but after reading some of the comments here wrt typical long wet clutch life, maybe something else is going on.

BK

[BK_856er]

Thanks for the info, guys.   

Keep it coming!

BK

[BK_856er]

I put an inquiry into Barnett about their clutch springs for the APTC application.  I got back two separate replies, one stating the springs are 10% stiffer, and another stating they are 5% stiffer and "pretty close to the stock spring tension."  Springs are said to be locally manufactured under close supervision to tight tolerances, heat treated, shot peened, pre set to prevent sag.  Compatible with OEM clutch pack.  Maybe an easy way to get some additional clamping force?  Brad Black thought that if regular ducati srings would fit, substituting just two out of the six would provide a substantial increase.  Anyone BTDT?

BK

[scott_araujo]

I'd be really interested if the 800 and 696 use the same springs.  I have an '03 800 Dark and the clutch is heavey enough to take some getting used to.  The biggest surprise for me on the 696 was squeezing the clutch, it felt light as a feather in comparison.

Scott

[rule62]

The '03 800 doesn't have the APTC.