Ignitions (Options for Carbed Monsters)

[junior varsity]

This is intended to be a bit of a F.A.Q. for Carbureted Monster and Supersport Owners in regards to Ignition Options and Things Related.
The extent of my knowledge centers primarily on the 900, but would be equally applicable to the 750, and likely to the 600.  All accolades and kudos really go to Brad Black, the extensive discussion on TOB, and numerous forum members from all over the globe. To you guys, I  .

The basics.
The ignition is 'triggered' by the lump on the flywheel. This activates the pickups, which sends a signal to the 'igniters' (ignition boxes), which fire the coils which fire the spark plugs.

Parts:
- The factory coils are a bit weak, I've upgraded mine to DynaCoils. (CA-Cycleworks: Electrical & Ignition)
- The flywheel has a lump, and the purchasers of aftermarket (DP, Nichols, etc) flywheels will observe a lump is also present. I happen to have a Nichols Flywheel (CA-Cycleworks: Engine Parts)
- The 'igniters' or ignition boxes have an abrupt profile, discussed more indepth later. Ducati Performance produced several iterations of igniters with different profiles, and were actually cheaper than the OEM units (according to numerous sources).
- An alternative to OEM or DP Igniters is the Ignitech Sparker TCIP4 Programmable Ignition. A single box replaces both igniters and allows the user to connect a computer and adjust the ignition profile, rev limiter, shift light, and several other features. (CA-Cycleworks: Electrical & Ignition)
- Silent Hektik produces a setup that replaces the flywheel (and lump), the pickup, the igniter is replaced with a digital alternative, and the kit includes coils. Vendor and Info)

Adjustments:
- The pickups themselves may be moved to adjust the timing. The range of adjustment is physically limited by the bracket and pickups here.
- The flywheel lump may be machined itself. The profile of the lump determines two characteristics of the ignition profile.  The leading edge is the maximum advance, and the trailing edge is the idle advance. Much more information is here

Considerations for Adjustments:
- Compression Related Issues
    + High Compression Pistons
    + Aggressive Cam Profiles (IE Cams, ST2 Cams, V2 Torque/Road/Race Profiles)
- Physical Limitations
    + Relative Permanence of changes to flywheel lump
    + Limitations to bracket for moving pickups

Important Links in my research:
http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/ignition.htm
http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vignition.html

[junior varsity]

Figures are shown as:
RPM  RPM  RPM  RPM  etc
ADV  ADV  ADV  ADV  etc

The OEM Profile is:

0  1700  2600  10000
6    6      32      32

The DP 1.1 Module:

1600  2800  8000  11000
  6      30     30      20

The DP 2.4 Module:

2000  3500  8500  10800
  9      30      30      11

DP 3.0 Modules Omitted in Posting currently.

Visually:

From the DP Catalog,


Stock v. DP 2.4


The Difference Between the 1.1 and the 2.4:


The Ignitech comes supplied with a 10 point map, and baseline advance of 10.

1500  2000  3000  4000  5000  6000  7000  8000  9000  10000
10     15      20     27     35      35     35     35     35      35

Visually,

[junior varsity]

The collected data with other users...

This data, while interesting, does not tell a whole lot without also knowing what the bike had done to it (the lump on the flywheel milled, or running high compression, etc).

Brad Black's 2nd Posted Profile, 10pt base adv:

1500  2000  3000  4000  5000  6000  7000  8000  9000  9500
12      24     25      26     27     28     29     30     31      32



Chris Kelley's profile for a Pongo Build uses a very curvy curve, base offset 3 (and flywheel was retarded approx 2 deg he indicates, here, not shown in graph):

900  1400  1800  2200  2800  3300  4000  4800  6700  8500
3       4       6     10      16     23     27     31      33     33

[junior varsity]

Other information:

Those interested in getting a little more zip out of their bikes will likely find the Ignitech a handy ignition and performance tuning tool. The ignitech's features are not being fully realized in its plug-and-play form. The Ignitech's software shows the ability to use a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). Those same people looking for more zip may also upgrade to Flatslides (such as FCR 41 for the 900 or the 39s for the 750). The Sudco catalog does list a TPS sensor and wiring harness:

021.561    1621-844 HARNES     $23.15
021.560    1614-812 SENSOR     $84.89


-- Email from Sudco re: FCR41s and the TPS --

Hello Josh,

Sudco Part number 016-671, the 41mm FCR carbs for the Yamaha TRX850 are basically the same as the Ducati FCR carbs. The biggest difference is the TRX850 carbs have the mount and throttle shaft for a TPS, where the Ducati carbs do not and these pieces are not available individually.  The other difference is the TRX850 have longer spigots, different jetting and cable bracket then the Ducati, but all these pieces are available for purchase. Basically, if you purchased the 016-671 carbs, TPS from a 98 or earlier Yamaha TRX850, changed the jetting, spigots and bracket you would have Ducati FCR41 carbs with TPS.

Chad Thompson
Sudco International Corporation
(323)728-5407 x107 - Phone
(323)728-8060 - Fax
chad@sudco.com

This is in an ongoing project, and I hope to update this semi-regularly with research and other findings.

[printman]

great info, need to upgrade to dyno coils, and ignitech, I wish I paid more attention in German class for the other brand.   

[monsta]

I've just emailed the local Sudco distributor to see if they can get the the TPS and harness. I'd like to give that a go...

glad that you have started a thread on this board combining the info!