S2r800 – DP ECU… or not?

[Brett76]

I was hoping for some guidance/insight. I have chosen to go with an Arrow full system for my ride rather than down the Termi route. At some stage I would like to open up the air box & unleash her a little more. But then there is the dilemma!!! My mechanic tells me that as my bike is euro 2 compliant it won’t lean out too much with the addition of the Arrow system & there will be limited need for ECU mods. Trawling through the threads here there is little relating to the S2r800 with the exception of one ‘OMG the sky will fall in’ comment. The way I look at it I have 3 options:

1.   DP ECU - simple installation, will fix all fuelling issues. I don’t really understand how the ‘1 size fits all’ method works with fuel/ignition mapping though, $2200 is a lot of coin that will probably stop me from doing much else to her (suspension was next), I could probably source one from OS substantially cheaper which is fine by me as local industry need to do better to understand how they can remain competitive in a global market (deep breath).

2.   PCIII – The idea of a custom map is enticing, although I wouldn’t know where to start. I would prefer less wiring – not more, it is cheaper than a DP ECU

3.   Install the system & see what happens

I guess I could also install the pipes, keep the air box closed up & the DB killers in until I can afford the DP ECU.

Comments/thoughts would be awesome

[ozducati]

Brett, rather than cough up all the money for an ECU, you can now re flash yours for a fraction of the cost, no add ons needed, the Pro Tune Power map kit will let you re flash the ECU with a map to suit the mods done to your bike, and it stores the stock map should you ever need or want to revert to it for any reason.. and if you sell the bike or get another we can simply load another map into the unit for you to remap the next bike.  the cost of the new maps are around half the price of the initial unit with a map already loaded.

I haven't had a chance to load all the models yet, but we can pretty much do any modern Fuel Injected ducati with the Marelli ecu's..

http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=101

[mattyvas]

There's your answer Brett.

He's quick, Ozducati is. You can re-flash as he said or I know there is also a Microtech ECU for around half
the cost of a DP ECU and much greater tuning ability.

[ozducati]

There's your answer Brett.

He's quick, Ozducati is. You can re-flash as he said or I know there is also a Microtech ECU for around half
the cost of a DP ECU and much greater tuning ability.

me quick? just being helpful Matty..

Of course the Microtec offers a lot more options than both the Pro Tune and the DP ECU..  I fe flashed the ECU on my 1198s, and am just about to do the Multi Strada today with a reflash and an Ex Box fitting



http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=52

http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=123

[Betty]

Hey Brett, my understanding is that the fuelling issues (lean running) would only come with the opening of the airbox ... not the exhaust itself - you seem to have that understanding too. I would have thought the PC3 would have been one of the cheaper options to 'add' any fuel you might need to richen the mixture.

I have a full system with a K&N in a standard airbox ... has been trimmed at service and runs within specs (apparently) ... I reckon it runs OK too.

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve? This may very well open a whole can of worms but it might also narrow the thinking a little. I have found that a little sound (quirky as it may be) can be achieved without too much drama. But if it is performance you are after I would put the money towards the suspension upgrade you mentioned.

I am also interested in the 'sky falling in' comment do you have a link?

[ozducati]

Fuelling issues will also come with adding an aftermarket airfilter as well, once you add more air there is a need for more fuel, and the standard ecu is rarely capable of providing an ideal fuel mapping with an aftermarket exhaust and airfilter.. the end result is a bike that runs lean, and the side effects of that are that it runs hot, splutters and backfires on decel (which gets annoying) and can be hard to start... the long term effect can be burnt valves, which are a whole lot more costly again...and if you're going to the extent and expense of fitting a full system then ideally it is a little more performance that you're after, then open up the airbox as well, and work out which way you want to add fuel.

PC3's are an add on device, and not a cheap way of doing things, as it ideally needs to be dyno tuned, so you'll end up with a cost of around $12-1400 to fit a PC3 and tune...

[Mr.S2R]

I have a full system with a K&N in a standard airbox ... has been trimmed at service and runs within specs (apparently) ... I reckon it runs OK too.

What's your defnition of "trimmed".  I bought my S2R with full termis and basically the top half of the airbox lid has been cut away.  It had a Ducati Performance air filter (standard??) but I have now replaced it with a K&N.  This was done by the bike shop the previous owner bought it off.  The bike does not seem to run lean, as the exhaust is on a greyish side, depending on the fuel I put in it.  From what I have seen of receipts the ECU was remapped also.

[Betty]

PC3's are an add on device, and not a cheap way of doing things, as it ideally needs to be dyno tuned, so you'll end up with a cost of around $12-1400 to fit a PC3 and tune...

So are you suggesting that with your options mentioned above there is no need to dyno tune? Brett has already questioned the 'one size fits all' DP ECU ... my understanding was that the true value of any of these systems comes from custom mapping formulated during a tuning session.

Common thinking seems to be that the idiosyncracies of each machine requires a dyno tune anyway ... otherwise why would people that have just bought a DP ECU still pay for dyno time?

So if we are talking about spending thousands (regardless of which path) just to gain a few horsies I'd suggest you'd be better trading in for a larger, more powerful bike. If 'performance' is being taken as literal (not just power output) I maintain you would be better off with suspension upgrades.

But Brett if you are after loud exhaust, loud air intake and a marginal increase in power which may exceed your riding skills or requirements whilst being mis-matched with less than optimal ride dynamics then by all means go for it!

Apologies for my rant ... but it seems that everybody - expert or otherwise have differing views on what is the 'best' system and how one is better than another because it may or may not need to be customised - in the end I see it all as marketting.

[Betty]

What's your defnition of "trimmed".  I bought my S2R with full termis and basically the top half of the airbox lid has been cut away.  It had a Ducati Performance air filter (standard??) but I have now replaced it with a K&N.  This was done by the bike shop the previous owner bought it off.  The bike does not seem to run lean, as the exhaust is on a greyish side, depending on the fuel I put in it.  From what I have seen of receipts the ECU was remapped also.

Sorry for the confusion I meant the fuelling has been 'trimmed' - the airbox lid is still standard. All done by somebody other than myself.

[Betty]

 .... and going for the record for consecutive obnoxious posts ....

Just to clarify I am not trying to push anybody in any particular direction - just my opinions, take it, leave it or argue I am not fussed

[ozducati]

What's your defnition of "trimmed".  I bought my S2R with full termis and basically the top half of the airbox lid has been cut away.  It had a Ducati Performance air filter (standard??) but I have now replaced it with a K&N.  This was done by the bike shop the previous owner bought it off.  The bike does not seem to run lean, as the exhaust is on a greyish side, depending on the fuel I put in it.  From what I have seen of receipts the ECU was remapped also.

If your bike had a full termi system, then you should already have a DP ECU, which means it will run fine.. you have no worries

[ozducati]

So are you suggesting that with your options mentioned above there is no need to dyno tune? Brett has already questioned the 'one size fits all' DP ECU ... my understanding was that the true value of any of these systems comes from custom mapping formulated during a tuning session.

Common thinking seems to be that the idiosyncracies of each machine requires a dyno tune anyway ... otherwise why would people that have just bought a DP ECU still pay for dyno time?

So if we are talking about spending thousands (regardless of which path) just to gain a few horsies I'd suggest you'd be better trading in for a larger, more powerful bike. If 'performance' is being taken as literal (not just power output) I maintain you would be better off with suspension upgrades.

But Brett if you are after loud exhaust, loud air intake and a marginal increase in power which may exceed your riding skills or requirements whilst being mis-matched with less than optimal ride dynamics then by all means go for it!

Apologies for my rant ... but it seems that everybody - expert or otherwise have differing views on what is the 'best' system and how one is better than another because it may or may not need to be customised - in the end I see it all as marketting.

Betty, am not trying to argue ,am offering advice and sharing my knowledge on these matters, i won't sell anything i wouldn't use myself.. is a well known and documented fact that more air requires more fuel.. the Pro Tune maps are all developed on a dyno, and can be tweaked to suit individual bikes, as well as there being a number of different tuning levels available for the maps.. it also stores your stock map in the event you want to sell your bike with the stock exhaust, or need warranty work done etc.. the Pro Tune unit is a simple process that takes 20 mins, plug it into the bike and let it do it's stuff..
A PC3 is generally fitted by a Dyno Jet centre and dyno'd when fitted.. you can buy one and download maps, but all it does is act as an add on device, adding more fuel..

when you remap with something like a Pro Tune it changes everything.. disables CO sensors, the ignition curve and fuelling all the way through, is a much more effective (& cost effective) way to fit an aftermarket exhaust.

The ultimate way to go is with a Mictotec, which is a fully tuneable ECU, stores 2 maps, and can have a range of options added to it, just depends on how much you want to spend.. is not all about marketing......is about getting the best bang for your buck.. i have 2 bikes, have had about 5 ducati's previously, and i tune and customise them too, so am not speaking lightly, i have been through many of these options..

[Mr.S2R]

If your bike had a full termi system, then you should already have a DP ECU, which means it will run fine.. you have no worries

It certainly does! I have posted a pic over on show ya rides!! 

But yeah otherwise it runs fine - like I said the only factor that comes in to it is the grade and brand of fuel I feed to my baby.  Love the termis, nice and load.  If I come across spare cash I would like to try the QuatD Exbox - but I guess that would involve remapping again?

[ozducati]

It certainly does! I have posted a pic over on show ya rides!! 

But yeah otherwise it runs fine - like I said the only factor that comes in to it is the grade and brand of fuel I feed to my baby.  Love the termis, nice and load.  If I come across spare cash I would like to try the QuatD Exbox - but I guess that would involve remapping again?

Did you dealer tell you to stay away from Shell? if not, you should, i run 98 in my bikes all the time, 95 only if i can't get 98.. BP seems the best, with Caltex after that..

You don't necessarily need to remap if you already have the DP ECU, as it will already have bypassed the CO sensor, and emsissions gear + have a better air/fuel map than stock, if you still felt your were lacking a little, you could try a remap, Quat D have maps made for their systems as well..  I just got a shipment of Ex Boxes in this morning..

[Betty]

the Pro Tune maps are all developed on a dyno, and can be tweaked to suit individual bikes, as well as there being a number of different tuning levels available for the maps..

Can I ask how this is done?

Or another way to look at it is ... how is it different to a downloaded PC3 map?
Yes I realise that they are two different systems that effect different things.

.. is not all about marketing..

But mostly about maketing

..is about getting the best bang for your buck..

Which brings us back to the original issue. My take on it was that Brett was concerned about creating a lean condition. He seems concerned about identifying if there is a lean condition and then the most 'efficient' way of overcoming any problems ... maybe adding a little fuel via a Dobeck system might meet his concerns?