S2r800 – DP ECU… or not?

[Betty]

Did you dealer tell you to stay away from Shell? if not, you should, i run 98 in my bikes all the time, 95 only if i can't get 98.. BP seems the best, with Caltex after that..

I am obviously in a mood today ... and I don't mean to get carried off topic ... so will say that the chosen fuel may also effect how the bike runs.

I have also been told to avoid Shell (although views seem to have softened recently). I was originally told to run 95, but have since been referred back to 91. Much of this will depend on the individual bike ... but I believe many with 2 valve monsters use 91 and find it the best for smooth running after trying all the alternatives.

[Brett76]

Wow, cheers for the speedy responses - interesting reading

I am hoping to achieve a bike that is a little more me with the upgrades. I don't ride particularly hard (anymore) but i certainly appreciate the ability to do so if i choose. My previous bike (VTR) had a full system on it as well as upgraded front springs but i found it fat, heavy & hot around the city. My monster is awesome in comparison (have always wanted a Ducati) - love the look, feel & turn-in, hate the pipes & mid-corner instability. The rest is simple aesthetics...

I am thinking i might put it all together & see how it pans out, although i am keen to hear more about the reflash or microtech Ozducati suggested...

Betty, this is the link to the sky will fall in comment http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=32628.0 my favorite was

wow ...you are playing with a loaded gun there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
get a power commander asap .................do not ride the bike untill then ...unless you got the $$$$$$ to rebuild the blown motor you will have
if you cant afford a PC3 then get a full lid
you are so lean its a miracle you have not had a melt down yet
don't screw around this is important

Cheers

[Mr.S2R]

I have also been told to avoid Shell (although views seem to have softened recently). I was originally told to run 95, but have since been referred back to 91. Much of this will depend on the individual bike ... but I believe many with 2 valve monsters use 91 and find it the best for smooth running after trying all the alternatives.

I stay away from Caltex and Shell and run BP 98 (98 Octane recommended for my bike).  I do notice the difference if I run 95, but this seems to be getting off topic.......

My monster is awesome in comparison (have always wanted a Ducati) - love the look, feel & turn-in, hate the pipes & mid-corner instability.

Ah another turned to the dark side....

Your mid corner instability is probably down to tyres (or suspension depending on km's and age) - this thread has some insightful reading - http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10553.0- I found my bike when I first got it had old Bridgestones (probably the originals when first purchased) and whilst ok, I found the front end would push.  Changed tyres and now my chicken strip looks very thin!! 

[ozducati]

Can I ask how this is done?

Or another way to look at it is ... how is it different to a downloaded PC3 map?
Yes I realise that they are two different systems that effect different things.

But mostly about maketing

Which brings us back to the original issue. My take on it was that Brett was concerned about creating a lean condition. He seems concerned about identifying if there is a lean condition and then the most 'efficient' way of overcoming any problems ... maybe adding a little fuel via a Dobeck system might meet his concerns?

The maps are developed on dyno, but UNLIKE a PC3 the whole map encompasses ignition , spark and fuel, not just adding more fuel like a PC3.. it's the same concept as upgrading a Computer, it simply reflashes the existing ECU, no need to change the ECU and have to get the TPS reset, and the unit stores the original stock map in case you need to reload it..
Of course we need to tell people about these things so they know what's out there, how would you ever have know about Ducati if they didn't advertise and build a market for themselves?? the fact is this solution is a cost effective and extremely simple alternative to the DP ECU, or a PC3.. and the requires no wiring, no dealer visits, and is easily reversed in 15-20 minutes..

Again, the Dobeck, like the Fatduc 02 Manipulator is a short term solution that still only alters fuel and doesn't give the ideal map..

[Betty]

I understand all that but I am still unsure how this fits in:

and can be tweaked to suit individual bikes, as well as there being a number of different tuning levels available for the maps..

 ... again, can I ask how is it done? and what is involved?

[tonymtber]

Hey guys interesting reading....

I'm in the same boat with my 695....have done exhaust etc & it is running lean & spits & backfires alot more now.

I've been looking at flash kits & there are quite a few available.  To go one step further, I've spoken to a guy in Adelaide who does lots of dynoing & custom tuning on various bikes....he said the ultimate is to map the ECU to suit each individual bike (ie on a dyno) & he is confident that he is able to hack into the ECU & remap it with his software.

He is just in the process of getting cables made up to suit my bike.

I know alot of dyno/performance places are now able to do this on various cars, so I guess its just a matter of time until more & more people are able to do this.  I would check around your local area to see if there are any close bike dyno places & have a chat with them.

Other than the cost which will be much cheaper than buying another ECU, at least you know the mapping will be set up for your bike/fuel/atmospheric conditions etc etc.

Hope this helps & I'll keep you posted when my bike is done

[Mr.S2R]

I've been looking at flash kits & there are quite a few available.  To go one step further, I've spoken to a guy in Adelaide who does lots of dynoing & custom tuning on various bikes....he said the ultimate is to map the ECU to suit each individual bike (ie on a dyno) & he is confident that he is able to hack into the ECU & remap it with his software.

who's the GUY?? I am in Adelaide and would be interested to know! 

[vossy]

Same here!

[loony888]

PC3's are an add on device, and not a cheap way of doing things, as it ideally needs to be dyno tuned, so you'll end up with a cost of around $12-1400 to fit a PC3 and tune...

it's true they're an add on device, but cost is a relative thing, depending on the model you can download "canned" maps and install them yourself, in essence achieving the same result your product offers except that the end user can change maps themselves without having to send the installer back to you for uploading of a map to suit the bikes new "recipe". The PCIII can interface with a dynojet dyno and correctly set a custom map quickly and accurately, yes, dyno time costs cash and pushes up the expense but as you said, if you have spent the cash on a full exhaust then you're after performance and a little extra to get it spot on and KNOW the A/F mixture is right is a small extra cost for the best your bike can be as well as the peace of mind. I had a PCIII fitted to a 888 and there is no off the shelf kit so it had to be custom fitted into the loom, and i had it set up on a dyno and got change from a grand, when you consider power commanders have come down in price rather than gone up lately i'm not sure where you get that price from.

paul.

[Spider]

PC3: imported $350
map/dyno (individual cylinders) $330
install (one with a bit of a look can do this!) $80

PC3 price is from my experience (on the 3rd one), map & install prices are from a dynojet expert down here (they are 18 months old)

[tonymtber]

who's the GUY?? I am in Adelaide and would be interested to know! 

Neville Lush Racing at Victor Harbor.

If your interested let me know as the more numbers that we have the cheaper it gets.  I'm willing to let him have a crack at hacking into the ECU (which he is confident he can do), his main concern is his cost to get the cable adapter made up.  I've told him if he is successful on my bike, then there would be other Ducati riders who would be keen to get theirs done to, but he said he's heard that before!

He's done previous work on other bikes for me & he knows his stuff

[loony888]

Betty, am not trying to argue ,am offering advice and sharing my knowledge on these matters, i won't sell anything i wouldn't use myself.. is a well known and documented fact that more air requires more fuel.. the Pro Tune maps are all developed on a dyno, and can be tweaked to suit individual bikes, as well as there being a number of different tuning levels available for the maps.. it also stores your stock map in the event you want to sell your bike with the stock exhaust, or need warranty work done etc.. the Pro Tune unit is a simple process that takes 20 mins, plug it into the bike and let it do it's stuff..
A PC3 is generally fitted by a Dyno Jet centre and dyno'd when fitted.. you can buy one and download maps, but all it does is act as an add on device, adding more fuel..

when you remap with something like a Pro Tune it changes everything.. disables CO sensors, the ignition curve and fuelling all the way through, is a much more effective (& cost effective) way to fit an aftermarket exhaust.

The ultimate way to go is with a Mictotec, which is a fully tuneable ECU, stores 2 maps, and can have a range of options added to it, just depends on how much you want to spend.. is not all about marketing......is about getting the best bang for your buck.. i have 2 bikes, have had about 5 ducati's previously, and i tune and customise them too, so am not speaking lightly, i have been through many of these options..

to say the power commander just adds more fuel oversimplifies an excellent product package, and regardless of how many ducatis you may have owned you're not convincing me that you know what you're on about. sure you want to sell your product, sure you use them yourself, but really what sort of a reccomendation is that? you get them for free. You say your protune is "tweakable", what? you can adjust the idle? set the co's ? regardless, it's all guesswork, as betty has said every bike is different, even stock bikes dyno differently so fitting aftermarket stuff is going to require corrective tuning, maybe small adjustments, maybe large ones, but your canned flash is no different to any other, it SHOULD get it in the ballpark. but you don't know do you? and if you do dyno it just to make sure and it's out to buggery what then? is it "tweakable" enough to make it right? at least with a PCIII you CAN set it right.
marketting indeed.

paul

[ozducati]

I was hoping for some guidance/insight. I have chosen to go with an Arrow full system for my ride rather than down the Termi route. At some stage I would like to open up the air box & unleash her a little more. But then there is the dilemma!!! My mechanic tells me that as my bike is euro 2 compliant it won’t lean out too much with the addition of the Arrow system & there will be limited need for ECU mods. Trawling through the threads here there is little relating to the S2r800 with the exception of one ‘OMG the sky will fall in’ comment. The way I look at it I have 3 options:

1.   DP ECU - simple installation, will fix all fuelling issues. I don’t really understand how the ‘1 size fits all’ method works with fuel/ignition mapping though, $2200 is a lot of coin that will probably stop me from doing much else to her (suspension was next), I could probably source one from OS substantially cheaper which is fine by me as local industry need to do better to understand how they can remain competitive in a global market (deep breath).

2.   PCIII – The idea of a custom map is enticing, although I wouldn’t know where to start. I would prefer less wiring – not more, it is cheaper than a DP ECU

3.   Install the system & see what happens

I guess I could also install the pipes, keep the air box closed up & the DB killers in until I can afford the DP ECU.

Comments/thoughts would be awesome

Here is the original questions regarding the ECU and PC3, guidance and insight is what was asked for, i don't understand what you guys are arguing about when all i am explaining is the options that are out there..

I was quoted $12-1400 by Sydney Dyno to supply, install and custom map (each cylinder) for my 1098s last year, and regardless of how you paint it, the PC3 is simply an add on device that controls the fuel .. pure and simple, and i am not simplifying it.. that ALL it is...

If you want the  ultimate tuning device then the best option is a Microtec tuneable ECU, full tuneable, allows control of everything via the software, and even stores 2 swappable maps..
If you want simplified, then the Pro Tune is the way to go.. pure and simple, and the maps are more accurate than the DP ones, we can change the tuneing in the map to give more high end, or allow better mid range, match it with an exhaust, air /fuel mods, whatever.. we will be sponsoring a few well know racers this year with Pro Tune, so i will let the product speak for itself..

[ozducati]

 you get them for free.

and just to dispel another one of your misguided beliefs, i get nothing for free.. i pay for my products, and i work hard to land them here and sell them at a competitive price, so you need to come down off your high horse and learn a few things too.. thanks

[rendang]

 Thanks Brett for posting the original question, judging by the number of veiws in one afternoon there's a lot of interest in the subject. I wanted to improve the sound, look and performance of my S2R800, but being new to modern bikes, it turned out to be more complicated and expensive than I thought. So far I've ordered marving midpipe and shotgun style mufflers, I'll put em on, see how they go,then decide on my next step. love to do something about the airflow, even get rid of the whole box ! . . .  I really appreciate everyones input, I learned a lot from this thread.                  
                                      cheers  Steve