how to handle zoning disagreements

[angler]

Apparently there was roof line height disagreement.  It is an old story......




http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/ventcover.asp

[He Man]

i would of kept it up until they aplogized AND threw a big party in my name.

[dropstharockalot]

I work in Zoning, and this story is to us zoning nerds as "Caddyshack" is to golf course employees.  If we were tough enough to get tattoos, that finger is what we'd all go with.

Here's another great one... I actually used this as the basis of a training scenario that I conducted:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2006/04/17/revenge_of_the.html

[ducpainter]

I just would have kept it.

Glad I don't live in Utah.

[angler]

This kind of stuff is insane.  My sis and my mom both in in house farms in AZ.  They are atrocious.  My bro-in-law has an f-250 long bed extra cab that doesn't fit in his driveway (sticks into the sidewalk a tad).  He started getting complaints through the HOA, so now he parks it across the driveway and mostly in the yard.  The neighbors love that, but it is not against the rules.  The silliness they have had to endure is crazy.

[Autostrada Pilot]

I just would have kept it.

Glad I don't live in Utah.

When this was on the local news several months back, we all though the complaining neighbor was being reDICKulous.


I love that the neighbor who was doing the complaining "I was just concerned for their safety".  How does a house that's 12 inches too high raise a safety concern?  He was just pissed he lost his view.

[dropstharockalot]

This kind of stuff is insane.  My sis and my mom both in in house farms in AZ.  They are atrocious.  My bro-in-law has an f-250 long bed extra cab that doesn't fit in his driveway (sticks into the sidewalk a tad).  He started getting complaints through the HOA, so now he parks it across the driveway and mostly in the yard.  The neighbors love that, but it is not against the rules.  The silliness they have had to endure is crazy.

Ah, a common property ownership misconception...

///Cue “Shell Answer Man” voice-over:

A HOA is not the same as zoning.  A HOA is creation of a private covenant agreement entered into by homeowners when they take title to a property.  It is non-governmental.  Many HOAs think they are the government, but they aren't.  Because they aren't a government, they aren't subject to many of the things that are supposed to make government fair - open door/sunshine laws, consistently-held elections, disclosure of spending laws, etc...  HOAs don't exist to serve the public welfare - only the interests of the HOA members as determined by the HOA members.  So a nit-picky HOA gripe like "We banned big pick-ups because we're snooty and thing big pick-ups are ugly" is (IMHO, completely bullshit, but also...) completely legit.  It's then up to that HOA to seek remedy through legal action using funds generated by that HOA â€" the government doesn't swoop in with tax dollars to sue Mr. Big Pick-Up and compel them to park in accordance with the covenants on behalf of the HOA.

Zoning is not HOA.  Zoning is derived from the government's police powers... I like to present it as "pro-active policing" or "large-scale conflict avoidance."  Zoning must exist (in theory) to serve the public welfare by pro-actively avoiding negative land use situations (that health/safety/welfare thing you mentioned).  So your local zoning board can't expect to successfully enforce a law prohibiting big pick-ups solely on the basis of "ugly" - there has to be some clearly defined, obvious and immediate connection between the threat to public health and the presence of that big pick-up in that yard.  This doesn't stop municipalities from making stupid laws and spending tax dollars to enforce stupid laws, but they have to at least go through the motions of doing so at public hearings, publishing notice that the hearings are happening, publish budget figures that show how much the government is spending on enforcement of “big pick-ups are ugly” laws, and, ultimately, defend their jobs every four years when the villagers take up pitchforks and torches outside Town Hall in defense of their right to have big-ass pick-up trucks.

Zoning is great as a big-picture, broad-brushstroke type of land use regulation tool â€" if you've got a big-ass map and decide forty acres of this goes here and forty acres of that goes there… well, that's pretty easy to defend.  Things like access, utility availability, steep slopes, natural features, etc… make those decisions easy.  When you put the small stuff under a microscope (like, say, the negative impact of a 12” variation in rooflines) then it is pretty absurd â€" how can the government possibly expect to determine the real impact of that minor variation in standards?  When that happens, the outcome is always frustration for all parties involved.

[ducatiz]

The urban complement to an HOA is a Co-op.  I lived in a co-op for 20 years in NYC and it was obnoxious.  You have to give them all your financial records, some good references, and basically access to your private life before they approve you (and they HAVE to approve you or the sale is null and void).

Many co-ops in NYC have now banned smoking -- inside your own apartment.  And various other things, such as famous people (don't want 'em), single men (don't want them bringing floozies home all night) etc.

One single guy in my building got forced out after he got divorced and started dating a lot -- a LOT, he was rich and very good looking and was enjoying being single, so he'd bring home 2 girls some nights and screw the night away.

nope.

[angler]

Ah, a common property ownership misconception...

No misconception here.  I've worked construction/development and had my real estate license in several states.

I know HOA does not equal zoning, however they often operate in a very similar petty and bureaucratic way.

[cyrus buelton]

If you have a zoning disagreement in my community, might as well just shoot yourself in the head.

These pricks in Dublin are unbelievable.

The zoning committee passed some "law" or whatever you would call it a few years ago about swing sets.

If you live on a corner lot of a nice area, on a busy road or just a desirable area, the city can demand that you remove said swing set because it is an "eye sore"


Try explaining that to your kid........it is such bullshit.

Oh yeah, also if you want a basketball hoop in your driveway, you have to apply for the installation first and then you can only install one that is from their pre-approved list.

[redxblack]

Zoning laws are pretty important. In the great Chicago fire of 1871, there were turpentine factories next to lumber yards next to match factories. There was no zoning whatsoever, which helped spread the fire. As a lumber yard went up in flames and blew burning timbers into a rail car full of kerosene next to a paint factory, the fire crossed the river and spread. Zoning was meant to prevent that sort of thing, not eyesore swing sets.

[ducatiz]

As with many things, zoning laws were invented by great minds but now tended by chimps

[Holden]

re: HOA BS

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/20/das-boot-one-mans-crusade-against-injustice/

classic threadâ€"if you have a vwvortex account:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3880087

[angler]

As with many things, zoning laws were invented by great minds but now tended by chimps

Exactly!!!  I would venture that most modern zoning laws are also CREATED by chimps. 

Unfortunately some zoning laws have become downright absurd, way beyond safety or density issues, and more in line with protecting rich people's viewshed.

[zarn02]

Zoning was meant to prevent that sort of thing, not eyesore swing sets.

All together now!

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