Show off your backup power thread

[ducpainter]

At 120v the motor will draw less amperage.

It probably doesn't affect the total wattage, but it certainly would make life easier on the generator.

[mitt]

Your 6A for the fridge again is some number the mfg came up with, but it might not be the value that it pulls just sitting there running.  It could be the value running, plus going trough a defrost cycle or something.

My fridge is 10 years old, and takes measured  20A to start, then 3.5A to run with everything on (compressor, fans, and lights), then 1.5A to just run the fans and lights.

If I could find my label easy, I could compare what it says versus measured.  I think your little gen can handle it, cause both things you are running are taking less than 1000W when running steady state.  Now, if both of them started at the exact same time, it might cause problems.

mitt

[whackie]

i've got a honda eu1000i.

yrs ago hawaii had an earthquake that took out electrically for the island of oahu. we hooked up the fridge, tv, dvd player, and amp. everything worked fine, to the point we didn't realize the power had come back on... until the movie ended. 

[ducatiz]

Ah. So as long as they don't both kick off at the same time.

And my fridge startup must be very modest then.

[The Architect]

Any recommendations on what size generator is needed to run a fridge, freezer, very efficient forced hot water propane fired boiler, propane fired instant hot water heater, a few lights and (where I'm having the difficulty) a well water pump? 

I've been putting off buying one but I think it's time now.  We're ok without power in the winter.  I can heat the house with a wood stove and I can melt snow for water (not for drinking,)  We can simply put for in coolers outside to keep it cold or frozen.

It's the summer and warmer weather I'm concerned about.  I don't want to lose the food in the fridge and freezer and I'd like to still have running water. 

[ducpainter]

Any recommendations on what size generator is needed to run a fridge, freezer, very efficient forced hot water propane fired boiler, propane fired instant hot water heater, a few lights and (where I'm having the difficulty) a well water pump? 

I've been putting off buying one but I think it's time now.  We're ok without power in the winter.  I can heat the house with a wood stove and I can melt snow for water (not for drinking,)  We can simply put for in coolers outside to keep it cold or frozen.

It's the summer and warmer weather I'm concerned about.  I don't want to lose the food in the fridge and freezer and I'd like to still have running water. 

I run everything required with a 4400w max 4000 w nominal coleman.

I just don't let everything try to start at the same time.

[ZLTFUL]

Work:

3 of these:


And 2 of these:




Home:



And

[The Architect]

I run everything required with a 4400w max 4000 w nominal coleman.

I just don't let everything try to start at the same time.

Thanks Nate!

[angler]

Sucks to hear so many people without power - good luck.  The first time I got really interested in this, I was without power for about 1.5 days in cold weather, and I rigged up a 750W black and decker inverter from Wal Mart to run my furnace off my car.  It was at the very limits of getting the furnace started, but it was better than being cold.

mitt

I thought about that as well.  I have a small inverter.  I figured it would be better to run extensions cords from the neighbor than run my Dodge V8 to run the furnace.

[mitt]

Ah. So as long as they don't both kick off at the same time.

And my fridge startup must be very modest then.

Just a couple tips if you are pushing the limits of your generator.

Start the largest loads first, then add the smaller.

Start up is the highest power requirement for any appliance.  Once you get it started, force it to keep running, the generator will appreciate that.  On your fridge, turn it down to the coldest setting, and let it run for an hour straight.  Similar for your furnace, turn the thermostat up, and let it run continous for an hour.  

Then, shut electrical things off and then shut of generator and let them sit for a couple hours.  You can save fuel that way also, versus letting things run on and off all day.

mitt

[mitt]

I thought about that as well.  I have a small inverter.  I figured it would be better to run extensions cords from the neighbor than run my Dodge V8 to run the furnace.

Yea, I didn't like letting my car sit in the driveway and idle for 30 minutes, but it was getting cold inside.

The inverter method does work awesome during summer storms for the sump pump.  I can run my sump pump unattended approximately twice an hour all night off my honda crv battery, without running the car or having the battery discharge below 11.5V. 

My neighbor has the same inverter, but his sump pump will not run off it without his car running.  I think there is a wide range in sump pump efficiencies.



mitt

[angler]

Yea, I didn't like letting my car sit in the driveway and idle for 30 minutes, but it was getting cold inside.

The inverter method does work awesome during summer storms for the sump pump.  I can run my sump pump unattended approximately twice an hour all night off my honda crv battery, without running the car or having the battery discharge below 11.5V. 

My neighbor has the same inverter, but his sump pump will not run off it without his car running.  I think there is a wide range in sump pump efficiencies.

mitt

I thought about this angle as well for back-up power.  How large of a deep cycle battery bank would I need to run the furnace and the sump pump?  Cost would likely be similar to a generator, but it would recharge through house power when it was available and maybe a small solar panel otherwise.

[z0mb1e_DUC]

It'd be cheaper to buy a gen set.  A couple of places around here sell power inverter/Deep Cycle set-up's for pellet stoves.  They don't last more than 12hrs.  That's with a +/- 120v feed, maybe 3amp load.  Figure around $400-500 for that.  I've got a Coleman Powermate 6250 wired to a 220v, 20amp circuit.  Last year when the power was out for a week, I ran the pellet stove, the forced hot air gas furnace & lights, 2 10yr old fridges, no issues.  I just have to manually trip the main to the house before I start the gen set.  I've used this set up probably 5 times over the last 10yrs, anywhere from 3 days to the 7 days last year.  Cost me about $500-600, don't remember exactly.

get a gen set, it'll last longer.

[mitt]

Batteries versus generators can be argued for or against like any topic where there is not a clear winner.

Batteries versus a generator

Pros
Always ready
More quite
Converting electricity to electricity - more efficient
More Reliable
No fuel to store
Easier to automate and integrate as a backup

Cons
Relatively Large
More Toxic - where to store
Sensitive to storage conditions, moisture, temperature, etc.
Need maintenance schedule to get useful life
Finite useful life (max 10 years or so)
Probably need a control system to keep charged and then invert power when in use
Finite run time until a recharge is needed


There are a lot more, these just came to mind. 

The perfect system would be a hybrid of battery, solar, and a generator used as needed to fill the gap or recharge the banks.

mitt

[angler]

The perfect system would be a hybrid of battery, solar, and a generator used as needed to fill the gap or recharge the banks.

mitt

There was talk maybe 10 years ago of power moving away from the grid and going to mini-power station/fuel cells.  I want to say Japan has done this sort of thing. 

These power outages make me want to be energy self sufficient.  A little solar, a little wind perhpas and maybe a natural gas fuel cell to round things out.  A good friend of mine that grew up and still lives in Eastern Oregon has a small NG fuel cell and it seems ideal.....