My rant on electricians... and why America is going down the shitter...

[TAftonomos]

Trying to upgrade my meter base/service.

This type of work involves having the poco come out, turn off the power to the meter from the transformer, remove and replace the cabinet on the outside of the house, run wire from the meter base through the existing hole in the wall to the panel in the basement.

These people coming by to give me quotes are sofa king we todd ed it ain't even funny.  $1800 was the cheapest, $2700 was the most expensive.

Meter base = supplied FREE by Poco
150 amp disconnects $109 x 2 = 218
40' of 2/0 wire $1.98/ft = $~$80
Permit fee $50 includes inspector fee
Poco turning power on/off = free

So....for a grand total of $300, these "experts" want to make $1500-2400 off me IN A DAY, with about 3 actual hours of labor....MAYBE 3 hours.  Bolting a cabinet to the wall, pretty simple task.  Stripping the end of a wire, and feeding it to the lugs, a monkey can do.  Pulling wire inside the house, again...monkey.  Stripping other end of with and going to the panel, pretty easy again.  Call inspector, comes out, tells you it's good (or if you screwed up what to fix).  Fix it, Poco comes out, you've got power.

It's no damn wonder America is going to shit.  It's such EASY work, yet people want to get paid for doing very little, and they want to make 3-400$ an hour to do it.

Had someone come out, gave me a quote at 1k or under, I'd have probably done it to a: support the locals, and b: no hassle aggravation for me.

Instead, I'll support the local electric supply place, do it myself, and probably buy that video camera that we've wanted for about a year.

[ducpainter]

Trying to upgrade my meter base/service.

This type of work involves having the poco come out, turn off the power to the meter from the transformer, remove and replace the cabinet on the outside of the house, run wire from the meter base through the existing hole in the wall to the panel in the basement.

These people coming by to give me quotes are sofa king we todd ed it ain't even funny.  $1800 was the cheapest, $2700 was the most expensive.

Meter base = supplied FREE by Poco
150 amp disconnects $109 x 2 = 218
40' of 2/0 wire $1.98/ft = $~$80
Permit fee $50 includes inspector fee
Poco turning power on/off = free

So....for a grand total of $300, these "experts" want to make $1500-2400 off me IN A DAY, with about 3 actual hours of labor....MAYBE 3 hours.  Bolting a cabinet to the wall, pretty simple task.  Stripping the end of a wire, and feeding it to the lugs, a monkey can do.  Pulling wire inside the house, again...monkey.  Stripping other end of with and going to the panel, pretty easy again.  Call inspector, comes out, tells you it's good (or if you screwed up what to fix).  Fix it, Poco comes out, you've got power.

It's no damn wonder America is going to shit.  It's such EASY work, yet people want to get paid for doing very little, and they want to make 3-400$ an hour to do it.

Had someone come out, gave me a quote at 1k or under, I'd have probably done it to a: support the locals, and b: no hassle aggravation for me.

Instead, I'll support the local electric supply place, do it myself, and probably buy that video camera that we've wanted for about a year.

I have to disagree with you.

Ever wired a house?

If being an electrician was so easy and lucrative...you'd be doing it for a living.

[TAftonomos]

Actually, I've wired my entire basement.  Nothing hard about it, each wire has it's place.   I don't want to be an electrician, I like working airplanes.  Hell, some of the best welders I've ever seen work down at the cape on space-craft stuff....and those guys arn't even approaching $100 an hour....and welding IS an art.  Just like painting!


You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?

Maybe there are hidden costs that I don't see or know about that are intangible...?  I could see insurance, what else?

[ducpainter]

Actually, I've wired my entire basement.  Nothing hard about it, each wire has it's place. 

It's not a freakin' art (like painting) is.....

You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?

My work is not art.

I wasn't implying that the particular job you're describing is mentally difficult.

That's not all that electricians do though.

Is the job worth that?  Probably not.

Is being an electrician easy?  Definitely not.

I have a basic problem with any customer of any trade/profession pregnant doging about price and making general statements regarding how a monkey could do it.

I'm pretty sure a monkey can do my or your job with the proper training.

You have reached the logical conclusion...don't like the price...do it yourself.

[TAftonomos]

Work air traffic? Some could, but most couldn't   , but that doesn't mean anything personal towards that person or any other. 

Painting IS an art, not sure why you'd discount yourself like that.  Sure, maybe mixing up the proper this and that to get the desired results might be partially learned through reading or training....partially.  But spraying that stuff isn't something you can learn in a book, I know that for a fact  . 

[ducpainter]

Work air traffic? Some could, but most couldn't   , but that doesn't mean anything personal towards that person or any other. 

Painting IS an art, not sure why you'd discount yourself like that.  Sure, maybe mixing up the proper this and that to get the desired results might be partially learned through reading or training....partially.  But spraying that stuff isn't something you can learn in a book, I know that for a fact  . 

Thanks, but that isn't exactly my point. I wish I could get paid what a welder makes.

The remuneration for different jobs in our society is whacked. I'll concede that.

Why do we pay lawyers so much? Why do we pay insurance companies, that may or may not honor the claim, so much.

We pay dearly for things our society thinks we should, yet the people in the trades...the ones that make shit work and our daily lives easier are relegated to monkey status.

I've been considered a monkey all my life and I'm tired of it.

[angler]

You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?

Maybe there are hidden costs that I don't see or know about that are intangible...?  I could see insurance, what else?

It must be worth that because they charge that and they get it......from most people.  Would they get it from me?  Probably not.  I have the hardest time paying people to do things for me.  Why?  Because I'm good, know enough about most trades to be dangerous, I'm cheap, and nobody is going to pay as much attention to my stuff as I will.  I however do not think it is something you could train a monkey to do.  This relates to my post yesterday on the cost of college and how the US is losing or has lost respect for the trades.  

You are in Atlanta right?  I wonder if it is like in DC - high demand for services equals high prices.  When I was doing remodeling on the side to save enough money to start my business, I would charge people insane hourly rates (time and material type jobs only) with one day minimums.  The one day minimum thing is the kicker.  Nobody around here is going to come out for a three hour call.  It takes them time to buy parts, time to drive to the site, time to set up and take down.  They have overhead to pay as well.  So they are charging you for roughly a full day for a crew of 2-3. Same rates apply here in DC.  I was appalled when I had 3 contractors price out a 2 story addition for my house.  The lowest bid was $120k the highest was $160k.  How much would it cost me anywhere outside the DC metro? Probably $70k.  How much would it cost me if I was the general and knew enough subs to make it happen, Probably $50k.  Were they a bunch of trained monkeys?  No, they are charging what the market would bear.  Even in this market most contractors had helatious lead times and it was damn near impossible to get the bids in the first place.

Would you balk if a surgeon said he was going to charge you $1800 for a 3 hour procedure?  Perhaps the surgeon vs. electrician is not the best analogy - with the surgeon you risk your life, with the electrician, he risks his.

[corey]

Thanks, but that isn't exactly my point. I wish I could get paid what a welder makes.

The remuneration for different jobs in our society is whacked. I'll concede that.

Why do we pay lawyers so much? Why do we pay insurance companies, that may or may not honor the claim, so much.

We pay dearly for things our society thinks we should, yet the people in the trades...the ones that make shit work and our daily lives easier are relegated to monkey status.

I've been considered a monkey all my life and I'm tired of it.

There's so much truth here, it's disgusting.
Why are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, and other tradesmen so expensive to us?
Because nobody wants to do any actual work anymore.
We call them "shit jobs," but like DP said, what they really are are the jobs most people dont want to do because they require to much physical work.
Simple laws of supply and demand. We need what they do, and they know we dont want to do it ourselves.
Skilled trades are going to be the wave of the future very soon, because there are without a doubt enough lawyers, traders, and other various desk jockies.  I'm one of them.

What IS BS to me, however, is that the people who ARE willing to do these things themselves, can't because they don't have the proper "certifications" or "permits."

It's my house, and i WILL burn it to the make the beast with two backsing ground if i want to.
I say do it yourself if you're willing, make the beast with two backs the local regime.

[ducpainter]

<snip>

Would you balk if a surgeon said he was going to charge you $1800 for a 3 hour procedure?  Perhaps the surgeon vs. electrician is not the best analogy - with the surgeon you risk your life, with the electrician, he risks his.

Not entirely true...

[He Man]

do you have home insurance? If you do, they surely wont give a damn if you make the beast with two backsed up your own wiring.
Do you have fire insurance? If you do, they surely wont gie a damn if you make the beast with two backsed up your own wiring.
Do you have any knowledge of how electiricty works? Or do you just know where to crimp a wire? IF you don't then they sure wont give a damn if you burned your own house down.

A LOT of people do DUMB Shit that they shouldnt be messing with, and end up doing it wrong. Its idiots like that who make the govvie force people to have certifications and crap.

[Vindingo]

This relates to my post yesterday on the cost of college and how the US is losing or has lost respect for the trades.  

That's funny... after your post about the trades, someone suggested becoming a plumber, and I was going to suggest becoming an electrician.  They really aren't bad jobs.    

I was a carpenter for most of my working life but got tired of the attitude most people had towards me. Almost as if the reason I had the job was because I had screwed up my life, or wasn't smart enough to do anything else.  We have been brainwashed to think that these jobs are for people that couldn't or weren't smart enough to go to school.  When you run into a good plumber, electrician or carpenter they are usually smart people.  Smart people that would probably kill themselves if they had to sit behind a cube all day.  The bad eggs that take these jobs because they are screw ups don't last long and jump from job to job anyway.  

More power to you if you can do it yourself, but I doubt it is the electricians fault the US is going down the shitter...

[angler]

That's funny... after your post about the trades, someone suggested becoming a plumber, and I was going to suggest becoming an electrician.  They really aren't bad jobs.    

I was a carpenter for most of my working life but got tired of the attitude most people had towards me. Almost as if the reason I had the job was because I had screwed up my life, or wasn't smart enough to do anything else.  We have been brainwashed to think that these jobs are for people that couldn't or weren't smart enough to go to school.  When you run into a good plumber, electrician or carpenter they are usually smart people.  Smart people that would probably kill themselves if they had to sit behind a cube all day.  The bad eggs that take these jobs because they are screw ups don't last long and jump from job to job anyway.  

More power to you if you can do it yourself, but I doubt it is the electricians fault the US is going down the shitter...

This topic really burns me up sometimes.  I went to a vocational HS and took a lot of vocational classes and a lot of college prep classes.  There was no way anyone at that school was going to advise me to enter the trades.  The same lack of respect was pervasive at the HS level - only the stoners and the flunkys ended up in a vocational track.  Perhaps they were right.  After 7 years of school beyond HS, I now can bill as high as a master plumber or electrician, yet they don't get any respect.  Now, the vocational HS has become a thing of the past for the most part.

   

[ducpainter]

This topic really burns me up sometimes.  <snip>
   

It's always burned me up.

"The future belongs to those still willing to get their hand dirty"  R. Fairbairn

[Grampa]

electricity scares me.



it's like magic.


think pulling a wire through a hole is expensive and difficult...  try kicking a ball when surrounded by a bunch of felons
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10048/1036378-66.stm

[angler]

It's always burned me up.

"The future belongs to those still willing to get their hand dirty"  R. Fairbairn

I thought that quote related to revolutions......

Where did you get that quote?  I know it is a KMFDM lyric, but I'm guessing your not a KMFDM fan.......