another valve adjustment question

[SeaLander]

This is my first time doing a valve adjustment 2001 M750 8000K

I just got done sanding all the opening shims, just spent about 30 minutes remeasuring everything.

vertical intake opener clearance = beginning .0015 - end .004 -> I can push a .005 but not a .006 through
vertical exhaust opener clearance = beginning .001 - end .0045 -> I can push a .005 but not a .006 through

horizontal intake opener clearance = beginning .001 - end .0045 -> I can push a .005 but not a .006 through
horizontal exhaust opener clearance =beginning .0025 - end .005 -> I can push a .007 but not a .008 through

I hope you don't think I sanded them to much. I'm happy with the measurements, I heard it's better to be loose anyway, plus I don't really know how to feel the correct friction since this is my first time.

Now for the closing clearance..

It seems I can twist all the closer shims except for one  and I don't feel any slack, this is without pressing on the closing rockers. With all the top rocker arms off I don't feel any binding so I'm assuming the closers are not to tight.

When I push on all the closers rockers hard enough I can fit a .010 feeler through, I can't push a .011 except for one I can. Can I apply to much pressure to the closing rockers?

I feel like my all my closer clearance is good. I would say a .007 goes through pretty smooth with moderate preasure.

Does this make sense? Since I had my openers too tight does this automaticaly mean my closers are going to be loose?

Another question I'm going to reuse my valve gaskets and timing belts, after inspection they look good. Do you think I'm crayzy for doing this?

Thank you guys very much for your advise,I feel better about this job with your advise.

[Speeddog]

If you mean the valve cover gaskets, and they're the metal ones, yes, you can re-use them.

How old are the belts and how many miles are there on them?

I measure between the closer shim and the closer rocker while pushing on the closer rocker, so I've got no good feedback for ya on how you're doing it.

[yotogi]

Making sense of everything in your original post was tough, but I think I got it.

You have your openers between 0.004 and 0.005. This is good.

When you push down (or "load") the closers what you are doing is allowing yourself to measure the opener to determine the gap at the closer when it is unloaded. You would then subtract the loaded and unloaded numbers to get the measurement of the closer.

In your case, you have a 0.004 unloaded measurement and a 0.010 loaded, that means that your closers have a 0.006 gap, which is loose for the closers. You want 0.000-0.001 if you are trying to get them as close to perfect as possible. To do this, you need to replace the closer shims.

The relationship between the openers getting tighter and the closers looser is a function of a lot of things like valve seat wear also by the shim half rings wearing in. There isn't any magic formula though.

If your belts are good, go ahead and reuse them. Remember that the spec is 2 years OR 12,000 miles. If you have any doubts that the belts are in that range, go ahead and replace. I have a set of the new ExactFit belts from CA-Cycleworks and love them, especially for the price.

If your gaskets are paper, why would you bother to reuse them, they are cheap? If you have the o-rings like the S2R motors, I wouldn't replace them unless they look bad.

I hope that I understood your description and this helps. Good Luck!

[canyonchaser]

So when it comes to measuring the closers, how much pressure do you use to "load" before measurement? Is there something I'm looking for to know that I've loaded enough, or do I push for all I'm worth?

dp

[ducpainter]

You definitely don't push for all you're worth.

All you're doing is counteracting the assist spring.

Be firm..not brutal

[canyonchaser]

Cool. That was my gut feeling.  You can kinda feel when things settle.  But it seemed like the measurement I got was directly related to how hard I pushed.

All my openers are spec'ing out at .005 to .006 mm. On a bike with 20,000 miles.  Is that unusual?  And should I bother changing the ones that are measuring at .006mm?

The book says;

Nominal 0 - 0.05mm
In Operation 0 - 0.20mm

Whatever the hell that means

dp

[ducpainter]

Cool. That was my gut feeling.  You can kinda feel when things settle.  But it seemed like the measurement I got was directly related to how hard I pushed.

All my openers are spec'ing out at .005 to .006 mm. On a bike with 20,000 miles.  Is that unusual?  And should I bother changing the ones that are measuring at .006mm?

The book says;

Nominal 0 - 0.05mm
In Operation 0 - 0.20mm

Whatever the hell that means

dp

The reason you can change the measurement by how hard you push is that you're actually flexing the rocker arm...cut that out.

I think you have an extra 0 in your numbers. Assuming you mean .05 and .06 they're all too tight and should be adjusted. You can sand the shims you have. It's not unusual at all.

What kind of closer numbers are you getting?

[canyonchaser]

Sorry. I got that backwards.

All my closers are between 0.05 and .06mm

all my openers are between .10 and .13mm

dp

[ducpainter]

Sorry. I got that backwards.

All my closers are between 0.05 and .06mm

all my openers are between .10 and .13mm

dp

That is somewhat unusual...unless all the openers were loose from the factory.

Intakes at .004" exhaust at .005".

I'd adjust all the closers.

The specs Ducati uses today are 'relaxed' to enable longer service intervals and make maintenance costs appear lower. The old spec of as close to zero as possible with no binding will make your bike run better and the adjustment and the collets last longer.

If you're doing it yourself the additional cost is negligible.

[canyonchaser]

Yeah, I'm thinking you are correct.

Everytime I adjust the valves on a Ducati I go through this.  I don't feel consistent or precise enough on my "loading the closer" to feel like I'm getting a precise measurement.  But by 20k miles I'm thinking, surely, the closers gotta' be needing an adjustment.   So I'm not exactly sure on how much to change the closing shims.

dp

[ducpainter]

Yeah, I'm thinking you are correct.

Everytime I adjust the valves on a Ducati I go through this.  I don't feel consistent or precise enough on my "loading the closer" to feel like I'm getting a precise measurement.  But by 20k miles I'm thinking, surely, the closers gotta' be needing an adjustment.   So I'm not exactly sure on how much to change the closing shims.

dp

Again, you can sand shims to fine tune as long as you buy a large enough shim.

When you do an adjustment do you remove the belts so you can check for binding by turning the cam?

Also, a very competent tech friend always adjusts closers first and then rechecks openers. He swears that they change.

[canyonchaser]

I do indeed remove the belts. It's the only way to do it.  But I've never felt I needed to adjust closers before. So I'm on new ground, even though I've owned dozens of Ducati's and adjusted lotsa openers over the years.

dp

[Armor]

That is somewhat unusual...unless all the openers were loose from the factory.

Intakes at .004" exhaust at .005".

I'd adjust all the closers.

The specs Ducati uses today are 'relaxed' to enable longer service intervals and make maintenance costs appear lower. The old spec of as close to zero as possible with no binding will make your bike run better and the adjustment and the collets last longer.

If you'reS doing it yourself the additional cost is negligible.

Since the closing clearance never becomes smaller, Ducati did not enable longer service intervals by changing the minimum closer clearance from <.001 to .002" minimum.  That has nothing to do with it.  It was changed for some other reason.

[ducpainter]

Since the closing clearance never becomes smaller, Ducati did not enable longer service intervals by changing the minimum closer clearance from <.001 to .002" minimum.  That has nothing to do with it.  It was changed for some other reason.

That's right...they always grow...

which is why they made a larger clearance acceptable...

thereby extending service intervals.

Think about it.

[WarrenJ]

Just did my first valve job on a 2000 750 with 7000 miles on it.  Openers were all tight and were readjusted to .004 and closers were fine.  One thing I noted, at least on the horizontal cylinder was that the opener and closer dimensions changed between having the belt on or not.  Is this usual or is it indicitave of another issue?  I've put 300 miles on it this week and it is running smooth and strong so at least emprically, its working....