Mechanically inclined Monsters, I need your help.

[Vinnnn]

Hey guys. Ive been on this forum now for a good few weeks. The last day I was able to ride was the exact same day that I registered here, so a little bit of bad luck there I will try to keep this really concise, but Im in a jam since I cannot get the bike to a mechanic.
It just wont kick over. There was no warning or bang or anything.
The starter motor turns, and the spark plugs DO spark.
I have removed the hose from the fuel pump and confirmed that it is being pumped.
I have sprayed generous amounts (though not all at once) of Start Ya Bastard, an ether accelerant, into the air intake.
I have drained and replaced the fuel.

This is starting to kill me. I have attempted a clutch start 3 times. Each time seemed to feel better. On the last run the bike half kicked over, but the RPMs were very low (felt about 2 per second). Opening the throttle increased them, but then it just died.

Some things of interest:
The bike was running fine before I washed it, and when the tank is all the way up fuel leaks. Im thinking maybe some soapy water has gotten into the tank?

With the choke on 110%, it occasionally starts then backfires.

I really, really am grateful for anyone who has encountered a similar problem! Even if someone can just point me in the right direction. Free car chargers or phone cases for anyone in the Macarthur region!
--Vincent
 

[gino]

hi mate.Washed my s4r on Sat.Befor i started it ithought i'd lift the tank and have a look in the air filter. Lucky i didnt start it ! Heaps of water in there ! Even some down the first throat.Had to get a hair dryer in there !started ok , but if i did'nt do that i would have had lots of drama !!!!!!!!!!

[loony888]

hmmm, if you have spark, and fresh fuel, is the fuel getting to the carbs ok? have you taken the air cleaner out and made sure the throttle butterflys operate correctly? have you sprayed aerostart down the carb chokes as you try and start it? do this with the choke off, if there is spark it should fire unless something has choked the carbs stopping air getting through. where is the fuel leaking from? check the hinge under the tank, it's easy to fracture the weld by pushing the tank too far back.
is the fuel stop open? silly question i know but have you checked it? it is carbed isn't it?
seeing as you have given it a wash, get some wd40 and spray it on the coils, making sure the connections are tight and also spray the plug leads. is the battery connected properly?
oh yeah, spray some wd40 or contact cleaner INTO the kill switch on the handlebar, then blow it out best you can, might have drowned the switch box in water.
how do you know the plugs DO spark ?

paul.

[Vinnnn]

The butterfly works, but the sliders above it dont move at all, not sure if they are meant to or not.
The coils hooked up to the battery loony?
The fuel is leaking from the fuel cap. Battery is all connected.
Aerostart down the carb chokes? Where abouts would I find them?

You guys are great

[DUCMONROB]

I really, really am grateful for anyone who has encountered a similar problem! Even if someone can just point me in the right direction. Free car chargers or phone cases for anyone in the Macarthur region!
--Vincent

Mmmmm very interesting!
If you have carbies, I would pop the fuel bowls off and give them a clean. If you think you got water in the tank you can place a cap of metho which will allow the water to be absorbed into the petrol. Now one thing is it does not start with the good old ether. There could be a chance the timing could be out but this would be extreme. Could be the fly wheel has come loose too whic would alter the timing.


Where do you work at the Square? Im there on a monthly basis dealing with the centre management.

Rob

[mattyvas]

Vinnnn

You have lots of good answers and things to follow up on.
Seems like we are dropping like fly's at the moment.

Hope you can get it sorted out quickly.

[Vinnnn]

OK:
Float bowls drained after a surprise visit from Monster Mick at work I then pulled the spark plugs out and just kept cranking. Air came out of the cavity that smelt of petrol, not sure what that means. Should I have sprayed WD40 in there? Sprayed the coils with WD40.. hmm
Chucked it all back together and still el zilcho.

Something else happened that might be important. After I washed it I hadnt hooked the battery up properly (bolts not tight enough). I went to start the engine and the bike just turned off. After that I realised my mistake, and hooked the terminals up tightly. The bike hasnt started since though.
The spark plugs spark when they are plugged in and I hold them to the bike as ground though

[Mr.S2R]

Air came out of the cavity that smelt of petrol, not sure what that means.

that is ok - means that some sort of fuel is getting through in to the cylinder chamber - after cranking a few times did you notice that the spark plug nodes are wet with fuel or water?

Something else happened that might be important. After I washed it I hadnt hooked the battery up properly (bolts not tight enough). I went to start the engine and the bike just turned off. After that I realised my mistake, and hooked the terminals up tightly. The bike hasnt started since though.
The spark plugs spark when they are plugged in and I hold them to the bike as ground though

so to clarify - the bike cranks over, and you have pulled the plugs out and earthed against the cylinder head and have seen spark - is the spark weak - as in hardly see it - or is it nice and bright and you should hear it snap! If not I would put new plugs in - they do eventually break down.
maybe your battery is not holding enough core charge - batteries have two 'states' of charge - there is an initial surface charge and a core or deep charge.  How old is the battery? When a battery starts to die initially there is an initial cranking time but then it will eventually slow - depending on how quickly it slows will give indication on how the core charge is being kept.  When you hit the starter and it quickly cranks then slows within a couple of cranks it can mean your battery is not holding enough charge to supply power to the starter AND coils  - thus hard to start.  Mind you too if you have been trying to start it since it hasnt been able to start you may need to place the battery on a charger to get it back to full charge.
Another thing when you washed it no water got to the air filter?  If the filter hasnt been replaced in a while and you got it wet it can restrict enough air so it wont start - but that would be an extremely dirty filter!! 

[vossy]

good excuse for a new bike I reckon

sorry I have nothing sensible to add.

I think MrS2R maybe on the right track with the battery issue.

[monstermick58]

When I popped to see Vinn,he did tell me that when he pulled the plugs out that they looked dry, he also told me that he inadvertently put a small amount of two-stroke in the tank, so I suggested that he drain the carbies, if that did not work then drop the carbies off and give them a proper clean.
We as lay men can only suggest the basic things, fuel and spark, so, start at the battery and make sure its fully charged and that everything is connected tightly including the earth lead at both ends, check that the connectors are tight and clean ( Mine had a low tension wire that was under the tank on the left hand side  that corroded and would stop the bike whilst riding and it would crank over but not start)trace the low-tension wire out of the lefthand engine cover up to where the battery resides, you will come across several connections all of which play a part of 'sparks' to the plugs, make sure that they are clean and connecting properly.
Do the same with the fuel, make sure you have some in the tank and its fresh, carbies we have mentioned, as an aside, make sure that your choke is working too, you have checked the pump, and all ok, drop in a new set of plugs and see if all this helps. If it dont, then buggered if I know




                          Mmick (just my 2 c worth)

[DUCMONROB]

Words of wisdom Mick!


If the plugs are dry then most definately a fueling issue! First step check to see if the fuel bowls are green inside or you may find rust from the tank.

Rob

[Vinnnn]

Oh my god, its working.
2x New spark plugs, and its working fine. I think mmick might have been on to something when he said that sometimes they just dont spark under high pressure.
Thankyou all very much to everyone who helped. I dont really understand how it all worked (since the plugs were dry?) but the important thing is no more busses for me

mmick, I forgot to give you iphone junk! Come back and see me. Goes for everyone else, anything phone related I can do cheap
Fone Zone in Macarthur square.
Im gonna take it for a spin right now, hahahaha

-Vinn

[loony888]

awesome! glad it's fixed mate!
now, can you help me with my iPhone question please vinn? i can't figure it out???

[Mr.S2R]

mate glad to hear ur back on the road - so happy it wasnt complicated - and dont worry sometimes the easy things ie plugs get the best of us!   

AND I reckon I said plugs do break down too! just didnt want mmick taking all the credit 

just kidding mmick! 

[Vinnnn]

Sure thing, whats your iphone question loony?
Hopefully it wont take 2 weeks of fuel drenched clothes to figure out