When do you clutch shift?

[FireInTheHole]

I was having a conversation with my brother, who is just starting to ride, about when or why or how to shift with/without the clutch.  That got me curious about how most people shift.

[Slide Panda]

Your poll doesn't quite work, since clutch use is combination of a number of factors.

From a dead stop or almost stopped - you must use it.  (accidently) dumping the clutch while in 1st gear at low speeds, on a 900 will get the front wheel pointed very much at the sky... I know this for a fact.

Down shifting - you, me and most mortals must use it.  If you're very skilled at matching your engine RPMs to the wheel speed you can down shift safely w/o the clutch.  But for most folks, we're not that good and you'll get at min, protests from the drive line - at the worst you'll lock the rear or bust something.  Unless you've got ninja skills and a slipper, it's very wise to use the clutch while down shifting

Up shift, here it's pretty easy to do w/o the clutch at all.  A light preload of the lever and a quick roll-off of the throttle and you can go right to the next gear.  ON my bike the 1st to 2nd transition is a bit jarring if I do this, but 2nd+ is quire smooth.

Engine braking - really depends.  If you're just slowing u pa little and staying in the same gear - no need.  If you're down shifting, so my comment above.

All that being said, it's probably wise just to have your brother use the clutch in all conditions while it's developing other skills.  Once he's developed solid core skills - then worry about fidly bits like quick up shifts

[FireInTheHole]

I agree, completely.  I use mine all the time and always have but, and I know this depends on the bike and type of clutch and so many other factors, I do know some people pop their gears.  It's never been for me but I figured I would start the conversation in case I was not giving him all the knowledge he could get on the subject.

For instance, dirt bikes....from what I understand moto-x riders use their clutches much less.  Of course, I don't understand much about the dirt at all.

[somegirl]

I use my clutch for everything but fast upshifting.

[MikeZ]

I use my clutch for everything but fast upshifting.

+1
Same here.

[Slide Panda]

Heh Ms said the very short version of what I said.

[somegirl]

Heh Ms said the very short version of what I said.

Yeah, but you had a nice explanation of why.

[ScottRNelson]

I use the clutch for all shifting, but sometimes for upshifts I don't really disengage it all the way.

I've never seen a convincing argument for how shifting without the clutch can make you a safer or better street rider.

[Slide Panda]

I've never seen a convincing argument for how shifting without the clutch can make you a safer or better street rider.

I don't really think there is a strong one.  The only advantage I can think of in general is it minimizes the time when you are not able to power the wheel.  But that time can be measured in fractions of second - so for the street it basically means zip.  At the track - sure it might mean the podium.  But since there's no overwhelming reason for it, that's why I recommended that his brother just use the clutch all the time.

I mostly mentioned clutchles upshift becuase I've been working on that skill recently, jsut part of the 'always learning' attitude for me.

[DesmoDiva]

I always use my clutch when changing gears.   

too much of a scardy cat to try upshifting without it.  I will never trust myself to downshift without it. 

[FireInTheHole]

Okay, here is another question since most of us rack most of our miles on the road...

I've heard that coasting with the clutch pulled is a good way to wear it out prematurely.  I'm not talking about the times you would normal need power to the wheel in order to keep your suspension engaged but rather, rolling up to stop lights/signs, stop and go traffic, and low speed traffic maneuvering.  Do you stress about keeping it in gear or dropping to neutral?  Is there any reason to?

It's strange maybe but this is one of the things I think about while riding...along with keeping light hands, pointing my head, and scanning.

[Slide Panda]

too much of a scardy cat to try upshifting without it.  I will never trust myself to downshift without it. 

Take a look at Lee Parks book Total Control - there's a good description of the method for clutchless upshifts.  Quite simples and works very well from 2nd on up.  1st to 2nd on my bike gives a good lurch so I use the clutch there.  Though proably not a necessary skill to have, learnig a little more never hurt.

You shouldn't downshift w/o the clutch .. it's a bad plan

[DesmoDiva]

Take a look at Lee Parks book Total Control - there's a good description of the method for clutchless upshifts.  Quite simples and works very well from 2nd on up.  1st to 2nd on my bike gives a good lurch so I use the clutch there.  Though proably not a necessary skill to have, learnig a little more never hurt.

You shouldn't downshift w/o the clutch .. it's a bad plan

yeah, i read the lee parks technique.  Still don't like the idea of not using the clutch. 

[Slide Panda]

Okay, here is another question since most of us rack most of our miles on the road...

I've heard that coasting with the clutch pulled is a good way to wear it out prematurely.  I'm not talking about the times you would normal need power to the wheel in order to keep your suspension engaged but rather, rolling up to stop lights/signs, stop and go traffic, and low speed traffic maneuvering.  Do you stress about keeping it in gear or dropping to neutral?  Is there any reason to?

It's strange maybe but this is one of the things I think about while riding...along with keeping light hands, pointing my head, and scanning.

It *might* wear it a little sooner... but I doubt it's anything dramatic if it actually does. 

And if it does.. look at it this way.  By keeping in gear at a light, you might avoid a rear ender... which costs A LOT more than a clutch pack right? 

[Slide Panda]

yeah, i read the lee parks technique.  Still don't like the idea of not using the clutch. 

If you're not comfy with it... then don't do it.  Doesn't do any harm right      There's way more important skills to have over clutchless up shifts