Do you know your (my) Cognac?

[il d00d]

One and only time I've had Dom was at a Portland punk club back in early '80s, after the show, out of a dixie cup. One of the girls who hung out with the band (which for some reason called me its manager  ) had stolen a bottle from her dad's wine collection.

Somehow, it all seemed to fit -- and I still remember how good it tasted.

This is the most punk thing you will read on the DMF today.     This story makes me want to destroy passerbys.

[rgramjet]

Ive got a bottle of DP chilling in the fridge.........since '98 (got it as a wedding present). 

Not sure when Ill pop it..........

[SacDuc]

Ive got a bottle of DP chilling in the fridge.........since '98 (got it as a wedding present). 

Not sure when Ill pop it..........

You've had a bottle of champagne in a refrigerator for 12 years? The cold and vibration has likely ruined it. If it has been allowed to warm and then been recooled more than a time or two in that 12 years I have little hope for it. Open it tomorrow to avoid further damage.

sac

[rgramjet]

......these purists that I hang out with.....

Im sure it'll be fine.

Plus, if I pop it, what will I have to show MTV Cribs when they drop by unexpectedly?? 

Need the fridge to have a touch of pimpiness.

:-)

[mstevens]

Y'all do realize that liquor in a bottle does not improve at all with age, right?

If it's in a wooden barrel for a long time, that can change taste, since ethanol dissolves some of the wood components and some water evaporates through the wood. However, scotch or cognac or whatever put in a bottle a century ago will not taste any better than when it was bottled. It could be worse due to rotten corks or oxidation, but not better.

Some wine improves with age, but this is by no means universally true. As SacDuc points out, it's only true even for those wines if they've been properly stored. Most whites, including champagnes, do not benefit from aging at all once they're bottled off the lees (although in high school I tasted a '58 d'Yquem that made it clear that Sauternes certainly can benefit from bottle age).

[zooom]

mstevens - I am going to point out another bottled alchohol product that DOES change as it sits in bottle. Lambic's which are a living ale's with the active yeast and fruit sugars in the bottle after being corked do in fact continue to ferment and change as they age.

[RAT900]

why age anything is it doesn't increase the proofage? 

[SacDuc]

why age anything is it doesn't increase the proofage? 

If you got it, drink it. They will make more.

sac

[RAT900]

zackly!!

[il d00d]

Lambic's which are a living ale's with the active yeast and fruit sugars in the bottle after being corked do in fact continue to ferment and change as they age.

This is true of any bottle-conditioned beer, or generally speaking anything with little floaties at the bottom of the bottle.  A good barleywine will take a couple years to peak, but will start getting bad at the same rate after that.

[The Bearded Duc]

Y'all do realize that liquor in a bottle does not improve at all with age, right?

If it's in a wooden barrel for a long time, that can change taste, since ethanol dissolves some of the wood components and some water evaporates through the wood. However, scotch or cognac or whatever put in a bottle a century ago will not taste any better than when it was bottled. It could be worse due to rotten corks or oxidation, but not better.

Some wine improves with age, but this is by no means universally true. As SacDuc points out, it's only true even for those wines if they've been properly stored. Most whites, including champagnes, do not benefit from aging at all once they're bottled off the lees (although in high school I tasted a '58 d'Yquem that made it clear that Sauternes certainly can benefit from bottle age).

You are mostly correct in this post, there are few wines, beers, or spirits that will taste better aged in a bottle. Most of the "taste" comes from ingredients that are added during the distillation and/or fermentation process. Although some benefit from being in a bottle, as zooom pointed out with Lambics. Corks were used in bottling for two reasons. One, cork was very abundant at the time and cheap. And two, cork is porous. It allows some oxygen to enter the bottle and some fermented gases out of the bottle, effectively changing the taste. Unfortunately, this can also be a bad thing as too much oxygen will undoubtedly "turn" a good wine, beer, or spirit.
The proper storage of a bottled wine or spirit is the most important part. A lot of things come into play. Ever notice the term wine cellar has the word cellar in it? People began storing wine in cellars because they found out that too much exposure to sun light, or almost any bright light, will change the flavor in a bad way. That is also the reason why almost all red wines and almost all good beers are bottled in dark glass. Dark glass (i.e. sunglasses) help to block the sun. White wines are often kept in a wine chiller, not a wine cooler or refrigerator. And there is often no light in the chiller or a light that only comes on when the door is open minimizing the exposure to light.

In regards to the champagne that has been in the fridge for 12 years, as long as it stays in the fridge and doesn't see drastic temp changes it will be fine, although the best place for it would be a dark corner in a closet at room temp. A good rule of thumb for champagne is buy it room temp, keep it room temp until you plan to drink it. Even though champagne has a cork it is carbonated which helps to keep the taste ruining oxygen out of the bottle. I personally think the reason why people have that one bottle for so long is because is was given to them on a special occasion and they kinda wanna wait for another special occasion to open it.

My $.02

[Bick]

Ive got a bottle of DP chilling in the fridge.........since '98 (got it as a wedding present). 

Not sure when Ill pop it..........

Nate juice is bottled?

Someone actually paid money for it?

On both counts... 

[Bick]

Back to topic...

At > 20% the price, I cannot taste much of a difference between this and Louis XIII.

Sure, it doesn't come in the fancy Baccarat bottle that can be sent back for a discounted refill, but...

(of course, I am always grateful to anyone pouring me a snifter.  )

[mstevens]

mstevens - I am going to point out another bottled alchohol product that DOES change as it sits in bottle. Lambic's which are a living ale's with the active yeast and fruit sugars in the bottle after being corked do in fact continue to ferment and change as they age.

Sure - that's true of any bottle-conditioned beer. It's also true of champagne while it's on the lees. Once a fermented product is separated from the yeast, changes slow way down. Since beers have more proteins and lower alcohol they can still mature (and spoil) in the bottle pretty quickly compared to wines, even off the lees. In the case of lambics it's further complicated by the use of wild yeasts and second fermentations. In general, Belgian (-style) beers are aged properly by the brewer and shipped when they're ready to drink. Five or so years after then, it's not at all likely to be as good as when it shipped.

I really think the "older is better" beliefs, especially with regard to Cognac and other spirits, originated in the days when they were commonly purchased by end-users in wooden containers. This was often the wealthy, who would lay down a pipe of Port at the birth of a son, buy a cask of Amontillado ("...for God's sake, Montresor!"), get a cask or two of each Armagnac they particularly liked, and so on. Properly stored, these often did improve with age since they were in wood and these people often did have proper cellaring available.

Marketers have been more than willing to capitalize on beliefs that older is better and to take that as far as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if we see bottle-aged vodka. Maybe it's already out.

I'm willing to bet almost anything that Cognac bottled before Prohibition will be no better now than it was when bottled (although arguments about pre-Phylloxera grapes might be pertinent) and that bottle of Scotch your Grandad bought when your Dad was born has been completely ready to drink since the day it was bottled. Open them and that nice Champagne in the fridge and enjoy them now, before someone drops the bottle.

[triangleforge]

Wooden containers also drive the price up by increasing scarcity (hmmm, can one "increase scarcity"?).

Even in a cool, humid wine cave, 60 gallon wine barrels evaporate off about a gallon a year; I don't know about smaller liquor kegs, but given that they've got greater surface area relative to volume, I can't imagine they'd do better than that. Subtract some for drinking, some to spillage/loss/whatever and some for evaporation, and the world's supply of 100 year old cognac is always going to be shrinking more rapidly than demand.