Rizoma Rearsets on 1100S w/ABS... [No more] Problems!

[Amlethae]

So the dealer who is installing parts on my new 1100S before I pick it up called me just now...

Apparently the rear brake mount on the Rizoma Rearsets causes a kink in the rear brake line that is pretty safe to say "unsafe to ride" with.  They said it would probably require a custom brake line but that because the bike is ABS it's not a very good idea to change the brake lines.  They're going to call Rizoma and see what they have to say about it (my guess is they'll say: "We never said those rearsets were approved for ABS! *click*")  So bugger... guess I'll have to keep the wings and look elsewhere for rearsets.  

Note: Hand levers and rear levers are not approved for ABS because excessive use of the ABS could break the master cylinders... which will happen with the stock levers as well... but none of the aftermarket companies want to be held liable... so the question of "will a custom brake line work?" is not going to get entertained by Rizoma (my guess anyway).

[He Man]

Im not the tech, and im not someone you should take advice from. BUT if it were me,

id take a look at the lines and see how they differ. ABS is a mechanical component I believe, and the line is just like any other line that holds the fluid to transfer pressure. If the line is thicker and heavy duty, then I agree. But its the same line then you should be able to change it. The orifice might be larger to allow quick pulses from the ABS ( again i dont know a damn thing about how it works)

I would say your right on your guess with rizoma. Hand levers nar rear levers are not approved for ABS??? what do you mean? Are they the same levers. Its hard to picure all this without knowing how the damn thing works. lol

This is causing more headache then good.

[Amlethae]

Im not the tech, and im not someone you should take advice from. BUT if it were me,

id take a look at the lines and see how they differ. ABS is a mechanical component I believe, and the line is just like any other line that holds the fluid to transfer pressure. If the line is thicker and heavy duty, then I agree. But its the same line then you should be able to change it. The orifice might be larger to allow quick pulses from the ABS ( again i dont know a damn thing about how it works)

I would say your right on your guess with rizoma. Hand levers nar rear levers are not approved for ABS??? what do you mean? Are they the same levers. Its hard to picure all this without knowing how the damn thing works. lol

This is causing more headache then good.

Yeah I'm with you.  I think Corsa (dealer) is scratching their heads over this whole ABS thing... maybe not though, Triumphs have had it for a while.  Never the less, my knowledge of physics and engineering tells me that a properly bled brake line works the same regardless of its length.  So it comes down to: do they have steel braided lines in the same gauge as the stock one that they can use to add another inch or so?  It's also possible that they didn't explore the idea of rerouting the line for added length.  I'm gonna go over there later today and give it the ol' bull-fighting from the box seat.

[redial]

im no tech either,

but wtf ive changed plenty of lines on cars with ABS why should a bike be any different

the notion that swapping high quality braided lines will ruin abs is just nonsense.
Unless there is a factor that i am totally missing here.

[He Man]

make the beast with two backs it, take the bike home and do it yourself. Investigate yourself cause it will take them 10,000 hours to figure something out. Installing rearsets are not hard. and neither is replacing your line.

[Amlethae]

make the beast with two backs it, take the bike home and do it yourself. Investigate yourself cause it will take them 10,000 hours to figure something out. Installing rearsets are not hard. and neither is replacing your line.

Might come down to that... guess I'll have to purchase a bleeder kit :-P

[misterburns]

I'm surprised to hear you need a longer brake line if you got the M1100 specific rearsets, I thought those worked with the stock lines?  If master isn't moved by the swap from stock to rizoma, what would ABS have to do with it?

When I put S*R Rizoma rearsets on my 1100s I changed the brake line to a longer length for proper routing (you can cheat with the stock line but I didn't like the way I had to run it). 

Granted, I don't have ABS - mine is a 2009 - so there might be something I'm missing here, but I've had no imapcts from doing so.  I got a custom made line from Spiegler when I made the swap, so PM if you want to know more about the details there.

Something seems off here...

[Amlethae]

Something seems off here...

You don't think it could be dealer laziness do ya? 

[He Man]

You don't think it could be dealer laziness do ya? 

Which dealer did yo ugo to. Duc soho?

tell them they can personally **** my ****.

[misterburns]

You don't think it could be dealer laziness do ya?  

 

If you got the rearsets made for the 1100, I'd call BS, pull it and do it yourself (if you can bleed the line).  If you got the s*r sets you will want the longer line.  In which case I'd call BS, pull it, get a longer line...


.... and do it yourself.

[BellissiMoto]

Quick things:

1. Pictures are worth a thousand words when seeking install advice (plus we all wanna see em anyways!).

2. If you need a custom brake line I don't see how that could interfere with the ABS system at all (the sensors have nothing to do with the length of the line).

3. If you need a custom brake line, just let me know and we can get it for you in your choice of color.

4. Part of the joy of owning a Duc is being turned into a mechanic... stick with it long enough and you will understand where most of us are coming from!

Good luck bud,
- Randy

[stopintime]

I saw an (open tank) ABS at my shop.
IIRC there are solid metal lines going from the ABS central unit - down towards, or all the way down to, the front calipers.
I don't know, didn't look closely enough, if it's that kind of lines from the master to the ABS as well.

[ungeheuer]

If you got the rearsets made for the 1100, I'd call BS, pull it and do it yourself (if you can bleed the line).  If you got the s*r sets you will want the longer line.  In which case I'd call BS, pull it, get a longer line....... and do it yourself.

OP has M1100 with ABS - so just as Rizoma S*R rearsets need a modded line to fit to M1100, its looks as if their M1100 rearsets may also need a modded line to fit on M1100ABS.  If the original line is kinked up... then sounds to me like a shorter line me be needed. But either way, longer/shorter, seems like not such a big deal to me.

If you need a custom brake line I don't see how that could interfere with the ABS system at all (the sensors have nothing to do with the length of the line).

+1

[Triple J]

I saw an (open tank) ABS at my shop.
IIRC there are solid metal lines going from the ABS central unit - down towards, or all the way down to, the front calipers.

I'm guessing it's similar to the BMW system...solid metal line to a fixed point on the frame...braided line from there to the master and then on to the caliper.

I also don't see how a slightly longer line will harm the ABS operation. Fluid pressure is fluid pressure after all the air is removed from the line.

Plus...who cares if the ABS to your rear wheel doesn't work quite right? A longer line won't cause it to lock up, so it is safe to ride. A rear wheel lock isn't all that big of a deal as long as you don't panic. ABS is most useful for the front wheel.


I'd just get a new line and see what happens 

[Amlethae]

Alright so here's the update:

I the bike is in the shop area of the dealer so I wasn't able to go back there and see it for myself nor to take pictures.  But here's what the dealer told me when I went by late yesterday afternoon:

The kink happens right at the banjo bolt.  It might be as simple as rotating or replacing the banjo bolt which would have little to no impact on line length.  The ABS has them freaked though.  They've sent emails to Rizoma and tried to phone them up all to no avail just yet.  They have gotten the ear of Elliot Cho (some big-wig ducati guy) about the problem and they're waiting the weekend to get a response back.  He told them his concern is the possibility of screwing with the ABS/ECU algorithms by changing the line length or anything -- but that he needs to talk to the guy who designed the ABS system in Italy to be sure.

So take all of that as you will... sounds like the most valid reason I've heard to hesitate about changing the lines, though I still think it's not going to effect anything.  Whether or not I believe the Elliot Cho stuff... well it makes a good story anyway.

I told them to keep trying to find a solution cause I really don't want the stock "mercury wing" rear sets.  By this time next week we'll start talking about giving up on it.