WTF!!!

[atomic410]

there are an estimated 2+ million feral cats in WI according to their DNR.  It was in the paper a few months ago.  Thats alot.  Good thing I always wear my seatbelt when driving through WI.  Otherwise I might hit one lose control and be flung into nothing effecting nothing but me.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7475469/

I love the photo

what is this thing?-

[fasterblkduc]

Isn't it difficult to drive while wearing a sombrero?

That looks like drooling.

[atomic410]

Only if I'm wearing a seatbelt.  It looks like a face puking a thunder storm cloud.

[flyinlow]

I'm all for wearing seatbelts, helmets, protective gear, etc. Just don't think I need someone telling me to do it, its my choice as long as I'm not endangering someone else.

But that's where it gets sticky. They make all kinds of arguments around how not wearing your seatbelt endangers someone else in the car, or how not wearing a helmet and getting smacked in the head by a big bug will cause you to lose control and wipeout, then the car behind you swerves to avoid you, then they hit another car where they weren't wearing seatbelts, then (well you get the idea). Obviously you could make these arguments all day long, and that's what legislators do. They love to go on and on and on about things. Just watch them make an argument in session when they televise them, I've never seen such bad actors in my life.

I could never be a politician, because I wouldn't sugar coat or grandstand anything. Me telling the public something would last all of 2 minutes, because it would be short and to the point, end of story.

[daftduc]

seat belts vs helmets is a completely different argument.  Contrary to what othes may say.

Seat belts keep the driver at the controls of their vehicle and therefore increases the chances the driver will still be able to control their vehicle post-accident and prevent further accidents.  Which mean seat belts are for public safety, not primarily for the drivers safety.

Helmets, on the other hand, do absolutely nothing to keep the rider in control of his bike.  Helmets protect only the driver.  They do nothing to protect other motorists on the road. 

[mstevens]

Helmets protect me from the massive expense of your 30 years of skilled nursing care after you break your brain because you weren't wearing a helmet.

No - you're not allowed to make arguments about how doctors or hospitals should be able to choose not to resuscitate or provide long-term care to people who made poor choices. That's not how our system (nor anyone else's) works, and it's not how it's ever going to work. It's got nothing to do with how things "should" be. It's simply that nobody's ever going to say, "Wait, he wasn't wearing a helmet. Let 'im die."

My riding a motorcycle is, essentially, an involuntary tax on the rest of society, or at least a significant risk of that. It's reasonable for the rest of society to make demands that I minimize the chances that they'll have to pay to wipe my butt for decades.

[Major Slow]

There are many things that are involuntary taxes on society. If you are worried about head injuries, almost anything that transports you past 10 mph should require a helmet. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes are all taxing on society; Should we mandate only healthy food be sold in resteraunts and groceries? If I eat red meat and have a heart attack should a doctor not treat me? Or if you are in the warehouse district late at night you are assuming some risk to be shot so therefore you are at fault and the police should just say that they won't investigate?


The fact is you can only demand or expect so much anti-risk behavior. Society has only so much responsibility to monitor behavior.

By the way, if you are worried about someone paying to "wipe your butt" don't wear a helmet. You are more likely to live paralyzed wearing a helmet then you are without it. The helmet saves your life, not riding saves your spinal cord.


or maybe not

[mstevens]

Whether you or I agree with the premise, this is, in fact, the reasoning behind helmet laws.

I agree with the premise. Anyone who argues that the risk of traumatic brain injury is somehow comparable between motorcycle riders and automobile occupants is incapable of interpreting basic statistics. I realize you're making an anti-helmet-law argument, but you'll have to come up with some other activity that carries comparable risks. Eating steak doesn't cut it. For one thing, diet-related long term expensive medical problems take enough time to develop that they typically don't affect those with life expectancies measured in many decades, unlike traumatic brain injury which disproportionately affects the young. Obesity, ASCVD, etc. significantly reduce life expectancy while TBI does so to a significantly lesser degree. Shorter life expectancy typically means less cost. Finally, costs in TBI are extremely high. My patients typically require a 24/7 attendant, which means 3.5 FTE's. The more mobile and capable of independent action a patient is, the more supervision they require. Very few cardiac or endocrine patients require anywhere near that level of staffing.

You totally missed my point about withholding medical care from those injured through their own efforts. A common, and specious, argument is along the lines of "Let me do what I want. Nobody else will be affected. If I become seriously injured, that's my own damned fault and I'm not asking anyone to pay for my care." That's just B.S.

I'm not worried about someone paying to wipe my butt. I'm worried about paying someone to wipe yours. I don't believe I mentioned paralysis or spinal cord injury at all.

[Major Slow]

I certainly wasn't trying to turn this into an argument. But as one who is incapable of interpreting basic statistics I am sure you understand my complete inability to comprehend any point you could make.

I do believe TBI is tragic and it's cost to society is great. I do find a health care provider that is more concerned with 3.5 FTE's than the cost to the patient's life and loved ones equally tragic and I hope if it ever comes to wiping ones ass you and I are not involved.

Ride safely

[mstevens]

I do find a health care provider that is more concerned with 3.5 FTE's than the cost to the patient's life and loved ones equally tragic and I hope if it ever comes to wiping ones ass you and I are not involved.

That's what happens when you start claiming that riding without helmets is comparable to walking down dark alleys or eating red meat.

The cost of healthcare is not a concern to you? If you someday need all those personnel, where are they going to come from? Are you expecting them to work for you for free?

I'm very concerned about the human costs of TBI. That's why I'm in favor of helmet laws. The reasons legislatures are in favor of them is considerably more finance-based.

[erik822]

I think I got a TBI just by reading these last few posts.

[kp]

how about shooting squirrels?  I shoot every one that sets foot
in my backyard. Every. One.


I wear a seatbelt.

[cyclops]

how about shooting squirrels?  I shoot every one that sets foot
in my backyard. Every. One.


I wear a seatbelt.

Lol. I wish I had squirells in my yard. I think they are cute. I like them. I wouldn't shoot them. And Jackie (my cat) would have something to play with 

[atomic410]

I just discovered that I have a flying squirrel in my birdhouse. For some reason I'm cool with this but not cool with the non gliders

[kp]

squirrels are nothing but rats with cuter outfits.

wait until they nest in your garage and then move into your house.
or until they chew through your phone/cable/wifi wire and you have to
wait for the cable guy (yes, the cable guy) to come out a week later
to repair it. Or your cat thinks it's friendly and she/he gets bit or clawed.


need squirrels exterminated? call me. I've got it down. just me and my
880 pump Daisy with pointed pellets.      one shot to the head usually works.