M696 overheating

[chisel]

@animatronik
I've seen fairly new bikes need major work because they've run too lean. It's more common than you might expect, and getting more common as EPA regulations for emissions and fuel consumption grow tighter, forcing manufacturers to further lean factory mixtures.

The oil cooler will, of course, help keep the oil cooler. That can marginally help with stuff like burned clutches, etc, but it's gotta be really, really hot. I'd be more worried about improper clutch use for producing the temperatures needed to harden the material, not typical oil operating temperatures. For example, I've seen liquid cooled, oil cooler equipped bikes burn up their clutches because of improper use.

Additionally, the cooler oil temperatures aren't going to do much to cool the exhaust valve and seat. So, you could still end up with valve train problems.

Not to knock oil coolers. They're sometimes necessary to maintain proper oil viscosity. I just want to make sure people don't think it will be a cure all.

[696DCRider]

My bike gets up to 5 bars in DC traffic.  It bothers me, but I'm getting used to it.  I thought about the oil cooler for a while, but it's really pricey, and as it shows in this conversation, there are mixed theories as to whether it helps or not.

I've heard that changing the type of oil you use can have a positive effect on the heat issue.  Have you or anyone else heard this to be true?

[chisel]

@696DCRider
Changing the oil viscosity and type (synth, dino, etc) will affect operating temperature. Synth will produce lower temperatures. Higher grade ratings will lower temperatures (but shouldn't be used in cold weather).

So, Ducati recommends a standard of 15w-50 from about 32 degrees F and up, with 20w-50 being suggested around 50 degrees F as the lowest ambient temperature. So, for those of us living in warmer climates, 20w-50 may help our bikes run cooler.

[slickb0i]

@alibaba, raux, bicunica
RE: Valve guide...
So, the overheating and the coil related surging issues are all related to overly lean running conditions. Overly lean running conditions can, over time, cause exhaust valve, valve seat, and valve guide problems.

During the exhaust stroke, there is an overlap period where both the intake and exhaust valves are open. When this happens, air/fuel mixture rushes in through the intake and over and out the exhaust valve. When the air/fuel mixture is correct, this overlap period helps to cool the exhaust valve, valve seat, and guide. If the mixture is too lean, the valve components aren't cooled and they degrade more rapidly. Degraded valve and valve seats result in a loss in compression, equaling a loss in power. Fixing this means potentially new valves and lapping or machining the valve seats. Degraded valve guides mean that the valve can move around, can potentially become lodged and cause a valve strike, or can rapidly degrade the valve seal, causing oil to leak from the area above the valves into the combustion chamber. Fixing this means new guides, seals, and potentially valves, if a valve strike has not occurred. If a valve strike HAS occurred, it's a whole different story.

Popping on decel and pre-ignitions on large throttle opening from low throttle indicate a lean running condition as these are time when the mixture is further leaned because of rider input.

I've had "slight" problems with overheating potential and with surging, but it doesn't seem to equal what I've heard reported because of the coil issue. Typically, my bike fluctuates between 3 and 5 bars. I live in Southern California. It does get blisteringly hot on my legs when stopped at a stop light with jeans on after a long freeway ride. I really, really hope to spend my money on a tuner and tuning soon.

Holy crap, sorry for the thread revival. But this thread came as a result me typing, "Monster 696 Overheating issues" into google. But regardless, my '09 m696 shows these symptoms.. I just had the 7500miles service done, the mechanic did tell me that there was a low amount of oil that he took out (wasn't the first time..). When I had bought the bike initially in '09 it did leak oil and I would see trails of it over the clutch cover, took it to the stealership and after the 2nd time they fixed it. But they still tell me that my oil levels are low whenever they change the oil. The bike repeatedly overheats and reaches 5 bars every now and then. Last weekend it finally hit 6 bars in NYC traffic, and I remember black smoke coming from the exhaust. Speaking of which, my bike was running lean according to the stealership when I took it to them awhile back.

I have Termi's and ECU Package. Bike was bought as a demo bike w/ 1200miles on it. Right now it has 10,500.

These problems are fixed now as in they don't happen anymore:
They reset the ECU and said the bike was running rich.

This one's kinda weird...it used to happen when I left the choke on for a few minutes when it was cold outside:



Another angle...


This was last year...I took it to JackTrebour, they kept it for a month and a half. Finally they said I needed a new ECU which was going to run me around $1,200.00. I told them that I bought the bike WITH the Termi's and ECU, and that it should be covered under warranty. They obliged and didn't charge me.

But as of now, the bike still burns oil, overheats like a mofo, and my clutch is starting to go.

[Raux]

the burning oil to me means there is a leak in the cylinder gasket or there is a bad piston oil ring. either of which aren't too bad of a fix.

the overheating, not certain but if you do have a bad piston ring than maybe blowby is superheating the oil?

the valve guide issues are a known Ducati issue, not just 696, so blowby on the valve could cause the superheating of the pipes and poor running.

all of these issues... a good mechanic could do during a valvejob.

[ChrisH]

In the 100*+ heat of Texas my bike runs at or above 4 bars pretty consistently. Average is 4-5 while riding, and will hit 5-6 if caught in traffic. I like to buy an oil cooler, but I just don't have an extra $500 to spend right now.

[Howie]

Holy crap, sorry for the thread revival. But this thread came as a result me typing, "Monster 696 Overheating issues" into google. But regardless, my '09 m696 shows these symptoms.. I just had the 7500miles service done, the mechanic did tell me that there was a low amount of oil that he took out (wasn't the first time..). When I had bought the bike initially in '09 it did leak oil and I would see trails of it over the clutch cover, took it to the stealership and after the 2nd time they fixed it. But they still tell me that my oil levels are low whenever they change the oil. The bike repeatedly overheats and reaches 5 bars every now and then. Last weekend it finally hit 6 bars in NYC traffic, and I remember black smoke coming from the exhaust. Speaking of which, my bike was running lean according to the stealership when I took it to them awhile back.

I have Termi's and ECU Package. Bike was bought as a demo bike w/ 1200miles on it. Right now it has 10,500.

These problems are fixed now as in they don't happen anymore:
They reset the ECU and said the bike was running rich.

This one's kinda weird...it used to happen when I left the choke on for a few minutes when it was cold outside:



Another angle...


This was last year...I took it to JackTrebour, they kept it for a month and a half. Finally they said I needed a new ECU which was going to run me around $1,200.00. I told them that I bought the bike WITH the Termi's and ECU, and that it should be covered under warranty. They obliged and didn't charge me.

But as of now, the bike still burns oil, overheats like a mofo, and my clutch is starting to go.

5 bars is not overheated and is normal in NYC traffic.  8 bars is hot, 9 is overheating according to your owner's manual.  Your bike is oil cooled and proper oil temperature is higher than proper water temperature.  The temperature sensor is also placed where picks up a combination cylinder temperature as well as oil.  Your bike has no choke, it has a fast idle.  If you leave it on too long your pipe will glow since there is no extra enrichment. 

As far as oil consumption goes, are you burning it or leaking it?  If there is no blue smoke you are probably leaking.  Blue smoke on deceleration you probably need valve guides.  What are you using for oil?  The clutch is a wear item and different riders will experience different service intervals.  Your wet clutch is also affected by your choice of oil.  If you are out of warranty you might want to take the bike to

If the bike is no longer under warranty you might want to contact Steve at ECS   http://www.europeancycleservices.com  I would trust my first born with those folk.  If you are still under warranty go back to Jack Trebour and speak to Country Joe.

[elgallo73]

In the 100*+ heat of Texas my bike runs at or above 4 bars pretty consistently. Average is 4-5 while riding, and will hit 5-6 if caught in traffic. I like to buy an oil cooler, but I just don't have an extra $500 to spend right now.

My bike runs exactly the same as yours in Fort Worth right now, I was considering an oil cooler as well but decided against it...  Just a note, with an oil cooler you and I might have problems in the Winter with oil temperature that is TOO LOW.  I don't think 5 bars is too hot, but mine stays around 4 even in the 100*+ heat we are experiencing right now.  In traffic, can definitely get to 5...

[elgallo73]

5 bars is not overheated and is normal in NYC traffic.  8 bars is hot, 9 is overheating according to your owner's manual.  Your bike is oil cooled and proper oil temperature is higher than proper water temperature.  The temperature sensor is also placed where picks up a combination cylinder temperature as well as oil.  Your bike has no choke, it has a fast idle.  If you leave it on too long your pipe will glow since there is no extra enrichment.

Thanks, Howie, being a new Monster owner, I had wondered what was considered TOO HOT, and mine consistently runs 4-5 bars with the heat we are experiencing...

[696DCRider]

I constantly get to 5 bars in DC traffic in the city.  I was worried at first, but realized it's just the nature of the bike.

[Scissors]

@animatronik
I've seen fairly new bikes need major work because they've run too lean. It's more common than you might expect, and getting more common as EPA regulations for emissions and fuel consumption grow tighter, forcing manufacturers to further lean factory mixtures.

It's not getting more common any more.  Vehicles are already as lean as they're going to get in closed-loop operation, and have been so for a few years.  Leaning them out further actually increases emissions, so the manufacturers certainly aren't going to do that.  Once you're at 14.6:1 to 14.7:1, as these are, that's pretty much it.

As a side note, going leaner than 14.7:1 actually decreases cylinder head temperatures, though exhaust gas temperatures continue to rise until ~15.5:1, at which point both go downward due to combustion inefficiency.

[Scissors]

My bike gets up to 5 bars in DC traffic.  It bothers me, but I'm getting used to it.  I thought about the oil cooler for a while, but it's really pricey, and as it shows in this conversation, there are mixed theories as to whether it helps or not.

I've heard that changing the type of oil you use can have a positive effect on the heat issue.  Have you or anyone else heard this to be true?

Thinner oil would actually decrease temperatures slightly, but at the risk of hard parts grinding against each other rather than sliding along a film of oil.  That said, there isn't a huge difference between 40 and 50.

I agree about 5 bars in D.C. traffic--that's what I see on the 1100.  My legs get hot because of the rear exhaust's placement, and the fact that past your legs is about the only place for the hot air and radiant heat to go.

@696DCRider
Changing the oil viscosity and type (synth, dino, etc) will affect operating temperature. Synth will produce lower temperatures. Higher grade ratings will lower temperatures (but shouldn't be used in cold weather).

So, Ducati recommends a standard of 15w-50 from about 32 degrees F and up, with 20w-50 being suggested around 50 degrees F as the lowest ambient temperature. So, for those of us living in warmer climates, 20w-50 may help our bikes run cooler.

The thicker oil is recommended for hotter temperatures not because it runs cooler (the opposite is true) but because it stands up to the heat better while maintaining proper viscosity.

Full synthetic is a good idea because it lasts longer before its effective grade drops due to heat and use.

5 bars is not overheated and is normal in NYC traffic.  8 bars is hot, 9 is overheating according to your owner's manual.  Your bike is oil cooled and proper oil temperature is higher than proper water temperature.  The temperature sensor is also placed where picks up a combination cylinder temperature as well as oil.  Your bike has no choke, it has a fast idle.  If you leave it on too long your pipe will glow since there is no extra enrichment.

I agree about the bars--the temperature sensor is near the heads, so it'll read higher than, say, an oil temperature sensor located in the reservoir/pan.  Both of my past air-cooled cruisers had oil temperatures in the 220-280 degree range, and the one with a cylinder head temperature sensor steadily read 60 degrees hotter than the oil.

[696DCRider]

I have the same issue.  It feels like there is a blowtorch under my left leg at 5 bars.  I plan on getting a thermal barrier coating on the inside and outside of my pipes plus ceramic coating.  I am told that this should reduce the heat.  That should be cheaper than paying for an oil cooler too.

Thinner oil would actually decrease temperatures slightly, but at the risk of hard parts grinding against each other rather than sliding along a film of oil.  That said, there isn't a huge difference between 40 and 50.

I agree about 5 bars in D.C. traffic--that's what I see on the 1100.  My legs get hot because of the rear exhaust's placement, and the fact that past your legs is about the only place for the hot air and radiant heat to go.

The thicker oil is recommended for hotter temperatures not because it runs cooler (the opposite is true) but because it stands up to the heat better while maintaining proper viscosity.

Full synthetic is a good idea because it lasts longer before its effective grade drops due to heat and use.

I agree about the bars--the temperature sensor is near the heads, so it'll read higher than, say, an oil temperature sensor located in the reservoir/pan.  Both of my past air-cooled cruisers had oil temperatures in the 220-280 degree range, and the one with a cylinder head temperature sensor steadily read 60 degrees hotter than the oil.

[slickb0i]

5 bars is not overheated and is normal in NYC traffic.  8 bars is hot, 9 is overheating according to your owner's manual.  Your bike is oil cooled and proper oil temperature is higher than proper water temperature.  The temperature sensor is also placed where picks up a combination cylinder temperature as well as oil.  Your bike has no choke, it has a fast idle.  If you leave it on too long your pipe will glow since there is no extra enrichment. 

As far as oil consumption goes, are you burning it or leaking it?  If there is no blue smoke you are probably leaking.  Blue smoke on deceleration you probably need valve guides.  What are you using for oil?  The clutch is a wear item and different riders will experience different service intervals.  Your wet clutch is also affected by your choice of oil.  If you are out of warranty you might want to take the bike to

If the bike is no longer under warranty you might want to contact Steve at ECS   http://www.europeancycleservices.com  I would trust my first born with those folk.  If you are still under warranty go back to Jack Trebour and speak to Country Joe.

Howie,

My M696 is out of 6, it reached ALL of the bars one weekend in where I did see blue smoke.
As far as the heat gauge on the M696:

(I didn't start the count from LOW as that bar is always filled whenever the bike's on, but even if you want to count it...its 7 bars instead of 6 then.)

The bike did leak oil when I first bought it back in the day ('09), took it to the dealership and they said they "fixed" the problem, but it reoccurred 2x after that. And the last time they did indeed fix it. But, every time I went in for my oil change (done when required) they would note that the old oil that they take out was significantly less than the amount that should come out. So I'm losing oil, but there isn't any visible streaks or anything on the bike. My guess is that it's being burnt. As far as the oil I'm using, I don't have an idea but could guess that its Manufacture's suggested oil as I do get my oil changes done through the dealership.

As far as the clutch, the bike does have 10,500miles on it. So you're right and just could be normal wear coupled with a n00b rider, as the M696 is my first bike.

Nevertheless, thanks for your reply and I believe my warranty is done so I might have to utilize your recommendation. But I will still try to get Ducati to cover it if they occur again, as I've been going to the dealership for these issues and they've never been resolved. Although, something tells me that the next time I go to the dealership with these issues again and they've realized my warranty is out; they will magically find the issue at hand and of course...charge me for it. I'm hoping that's not the case because the guys at Jack Trebour are awesome, but with my experience with cars and dealerships, its usually the case lol.

[Armor]

You should check your oil level and refill when necessary.  Letting the oil level get too low can damage your engine.