MBP Collet Installation

[Speeddog]

You weren't by chance having problems fitting the collets onto this valve, were you?

[ducpainter]

You weren't by chance having problems fitting the collets onto this valve, were you?

popcorn]

[He Man]

You weren't by chance having problems fitting the collets onto this valve, were you?

Dont turn on hte microwave ducpainter!
It is NOT that valve. that pic is the forward cylinder intake. The one i had issues with turns out to not be the bike, its the collets. If i install them and look at it with a loupe, they dont seat correctly on any valve i install it onto.
The picture you quoted had no issues during installion of the MBP collets.

Mike @ EMS duc said its not very easy to tell if they are properly seated or not on the 2v bikes if you have the bad batch, but with the new batch, you know. so hopefully i'll know with the new ones.

[He Man]

Just a quick question, how do you guys support the valve on the DS1000, i bought plastic forceps like the video chris posted, instead of using my metal ones and then i realized something... theres much more space in the square ones compared to the circular ones i have. i tried to modify them to fit, but in the end they would just fly off when i comparess the closing rocker arm.

I ended up taking a 1/8th brass punch bending the tip and sticking it into the sparkplug hole. it works great, all i need to do is use my hip to apply a little pressure to keep the valve up and its like having a 3rd arm.

[brad black]

remove the belts, push the valve down and hold the rocker down with a pin under it, turn the engine over until the piston pushes the valve up a touch.

i don't understand why people try to stick stuff in the cylinder when the piston is there doing nothing and happy to help.

[ducpainter]

remove the belts, push the valve down and hold the rocker down with a pin under it, turn the engine over until the piston pushes the valve up a touch.

i don't understand why people try to stick stuff in the cylinder when the piston is there doing nothing and happy to help.

We tried to tell him.

Listening is not one of his fortes.

[He Man]

We tried to tell him.

Listening is not one of his fortes.

This?

You should be able to insert an 8mm allen wrench, or similar, through the intake cover side and hold the closer away from the valve.

remove the belts, push the valve down and hold the rocker down with a pin under it, turn the engine over until the piston pushes the valve up a touch.

i don't understand why people try to stick stuff in the cylinder when the piston is there doing nothing and happy to help.

Im trying to visualize what your saying here, and i dont get what you mean by hold hte rocker down with a pin UNDER it. I know theres a cam lock on the left side of the engine. you mean stick a pin in there?

[ducpainter]

This?

Im trying to visualize what your saying here, and i dont get what you mean by hold hte rocker down with a pin UNDER it. I know theres a cam lock on the left side of the engine. you mean stick a pin in there?

Yup...

No...

You remove the belt and push the rocker down at the valve end.

You insert the pin through the opposite rocker cover between the rocker and cam.

That holds the closing rocker away from the shim. You make sure that the piston is at TDC on the cylinder you're working on.

At that point even you can't screw it up.

Have you ever heard the expression KISS?

[Ddan]

Have you ever heard the expression KISS?

Isn't he in school for the polar opposite concept?

[ducpainter]

Isn't he in school for the polar opposite concept?

Yeah...

but work with me here.

[Ddan]

Yeah...

but work with me here.

OK, how's this?


He Man, hit the make the beast with two backsing thing with a big make the beast with two backsing hammer, a lot,  put it out of it's make the beast with two backsing misery, and get one you make the beast with two backsing don't need to make the beast with two backsing work on.

That's KISS

[ducpainter]

OK, how's this?


He Man, hit the make the beast with two backsing thing with a big make the beast with two backsing hammer, a lot,  put it out of it's make the beast with two backsing misery, and get one you make the beast with two backsing don't need to make the beast with two backsing work on.

That's KISS

Yet...

his inner engineer will insist he make the beast with two backss with it.

[nomadwarmachine]

I practice the no-belts method myself and am intrigued by the "pin" idea.  Right now I just push the closer down with a flathead screwdriver while I try to get the collets on.  If there was a better way to keep the closer pushed down, I would love to see it.

[He Man]

OK, how's this?


He Man, hit the make the beast with two backsing thing with a big make the beast with two backsing hammer, a lot,  put it out of it's make the beast with two backsing misery, and get one you make the beast with two backsing don't need to make the beast with two backsing work on.

That's KISS

what kind? a rounded peen hammer? 5lber? how hard? Where should I hit it? I use hammer and brass punch to knock the closer loose, no lie.

[brad black]

the 1000 are a bit different to the older 2v motors with less room when doing this sort of stuff.  on the older ones you slide the opening rocker over and push the valve and closing rocker down and slide in a 10mm or so round thing from the side you're working on under the tail of the closing rocker (cam end).

on the 1000 (ds) i usually remove the lh end cap and pull the opening rocker arms out when doing closing clearances.  i'm sure i did some earlier ones without getting this disassembled, but the last few i've done have all worked much better this way.

from memory with the opening rocker arms in you can't turn the cams all the way around like you can an older 900, etc engine, as the opening rocker will get caught on another lobe and push down and jam everything up.  there's not quite enough access to make it nice and easy, so i just accept that i need to pull the opening arms and away we go.  once you're finished with the closers the openers can go back in, as there's no need to repeatedly remove them later.

so with that out of the way push down the valve and slide something approx 8 - 9mm round or the like - my long ball end L shaped 8mm hex key works well - in from the other side.  if you're doing the exh, slide it past the inlet valve and under the cam end tail of the exh closing rocker.  this holds the exh closing rocker down and the valve drops.

wind the engine over until the piston comes up and pushes the valve up.  if you get to tdc and the valve hasn't moved you need something thicker under the closing rocker.  just don't push the rocker all the way down hard and damage the valve stem seal.

now the valve is held, the collets and groove are proud of the shim and nothing can go anywhere.  well, except the collets of course, they make the beast with two backs off at the slightest invitation and get caught in all sorts of places.  they can actually get under the back of the horiz exh opening rockers arms on a testa, between the rocker and the head which is at the bottom in that instance.  and a magnet won't pull them out.  ask me how much time that cost me.  because it's not just a case of leaving it there and fitting a new one - you just know it's going to come out as soon as you fire it up.  and to pull the pins out you need to pull off those amazingly stupidly designed side plates that have o-rings to seal oil and coolant and the belt rollers that use a special tool to remove the bolt and it just goes on.  the testa evo is so much better.

anyway, back to the topic.

i rest the valves on top of the pistons and tap the shims down with a long 3/8 drive extension when they're stuck.  usually works ok, altho sometimes you have to hit it hard enough to leave you wondering if the valve is bent.