MBP Collet Installation

[He Man]

New THread cause this one is for a specific problem.

Called up EMSDUC and got some great info on how to install these suckers.

The i got them installed with less than .001 to .0015" gap between the shim and closing rocker arm on 3 valves, but the Vertical Exhaust valve is giving me SO MUCH HEADACHE.

THe biggest problem is getting the Collet to seat. The MBP Collets are much larger than the stock collets so they take up much more room on the groove. So once you install the collets theres a couple ways to get to them to full seat. One way is to hit the valve gently with a hammer, this will force the valve into the closing shim. The other way is to let the clsoing rocker arm to slap the shim, kind of like slaping a magazine against something hard to seat the bullets, or slapping cigarette boxes to get them to all line up.

Anyway, I can visually see that one collet will not seat when compared to the other valves, since i dont have a well trained eye to see it, i cant say for sure, but no matter what i do to try and get it to seat, it wont. The cam is stuck, so the there is negative clearance that is preventing me from spining the cam.

Ive gone from .517" to .509" (this is measured with the closing shim measuring tool) on the shim. I did not need to remove that much off the shim on any other valve. EMSDUC said they can cause the closing clearance to increase by up to .012" depending on the batch. All of mine  are within .004" So i really cant figure it out. The only other solution i see is to continue to sand until i see it unbind.

I tried installing 1 of the collets, and the cam spins with no binding. With both installed the cam wont budge. With the "bad" collet installed by itself, it will bind. Physically i can see nothing wrong with the collet. I can try to remove a collet from another valve and install it. Thats about the only other thing i can think of.

Any help at all? My last resort is to install the stock collet and ride it up to ECS and have them finish the job.

Stock Collets ( are they suppose to be full rings?)



A properly seated MBP collet


This is the EVIL CLOSING SHIM! Thats how the collet sits inside it.

[svr]

I was having a similar problem when I figured out I was installing them upside down. Make sure the side that fits in the groove is down (closest to cylinder) so that there is a little collar showing and extending out of the shim recess. Hope this makes sense. Mine is a 99 900 so IM assuming collets are same ?

[He Man]

They are installed in hte correct orientation. I dont know how they would even fit if you installed them down, they would just pop off when the closing ship hits it. I think i might of found the problem. But i have to remove  the other one to inspect it.

I am going to swap these collets with another valve on saturday and see where i go from there. if not, i will be running 3 MBP valves, and 1 stock valve. lol

[svr]

Yeah of they're wrong they will still go on but kinda wdege in there and the clearace will be real tight. Or at least that was my fisrt experience. They were hard as fk to install until i finally got a technique for sliding them down the stem that worked for me. But the first one I bet I spent 3 hrs on that beeotch.

[He Man]

i have a helping a hand ( that i kept for 8 hours  ). Getting them into the groove is easy, ive done it almost 50 times by now. Im using a loupe to look at how the shim sits on the closing shim. it doenst sit flush, so that may be why smacking it HARD  will cause it to seat "properly".

i did 3 valves in about 3 hours. its just this last one i already spent 3 hours on that causes me the most headache.

[brad black]

is the dark one the bad one and all the others silver?  i'd get them to replace the bad one.  they're just collets, they go in and away you go.  there has to be something wrong if it's that hard to fit, and if there's no obvious burrs you need to try another.

i love the 8mm ones for the older 2v bikes, they're so easy to fit.

[He Man]

is the dark one the bad one and all the others silver?  i'd get them to replace the bad one.  they're just collets, they go in and away you go.  there has to be something wrong if it's that hard to fit, and if there's no obvious burrs you need to try another.

i love the 8mm ones for the older 2v bikes, they're so easy to fit.

its just the flash, i cant physically tell which one is the "bad one" until i install them. Im pretty sure they arent sitting correctly and my shim is way to small now.

[greenmonster]

are they suppose to be full rings?

No, usually called halfrings.

[He Man]

No, usually called halfrings.

sorry i didnt mean like a full ring 1 piece, but are they suppose to connect together to become a full ring.

also i think i found out the problem. I think the collets are bad. I dont know how the previous owner got them in, but i swapped around a known collets that seat with the bad collets along with good shims and the misbehaving shim.


Bad Shim + Bad Collet= negative clearance causing binding
Bad Shim+ good collets = Positive clearance @ .001
Good Shim + bad collets = negative clearance causing binding
God shim + good collets = Positive clerance @.001

So, because i am sick and tired of this crap. I put the stock collet back in one of them. its at .002  for the intake closer on the verticle ( i moved it so it would be easier to work with.

The bike runs great. Im going to get another pair of collets to replace this. also picked up a used shim kit so i can figure out which one works best and order some new shims from mike at EMS.

PLEASE let this be the end of my torture.

[Christian]

This is one of the reasons I avoid MBP collets, FWIW.

[He Man]

This is one of the reasons I avoid MBP collets, FWIW.

My honest opinion without riding it ( i did put it together with the stock collet on ONE of the valves and started the engine)

is that if they installed correctly, they arent hard to install. its basically drop in and replace a shim. thats it. other then that, if you run into any problems, this is what happens.

Ill post up pic + video of the install for future reference.

[errazor]

Maybe you have a small debris on your valvestame that prevent the new halfring to seat properly?

[He Man]

I thought that was the answer at first, but i washed it with wate,r then compressed air, and i also dripped oil into the valve stem then blew it with air, and wiped it with a clean rag. no go.

So i got my bike back up and running with 3 MBP collet valves and 1 stocker.
its a hybrid!

suck my balls ducati. Shim kit + new collet to replace the 2 broken ones = next week. with my new CA-cyclework pod filters installed, getting to the top valve is EASY. takes less than 10 minutes to get to the valve cover! so i can ride around instead of tweedling my thumb.

[errazor]

I was thinking about the groove that the halfring sits in on the valve.
It looks like it is a Sharpe edge on one of your older halfring.

[He Man]

You mean the groove on the valve stem? If so, i dripped oil onto it so any debries will be carried away by the oil, then for safe measure i blew it with compressed air and then wiped the groove with a clean rag.

Anywya, on my 2nd call to mike at EMSDUC, hes going to send me 8 new rings. and said that its possible that the set of rings i got was part of a bad batch they tried to recall earlier.

So dispite the fact that i bought them used, he is warrantying them which is awesome.

Now... i just have to rip them all out.