Tuning dead end - need advice an thoughts again, thanks

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

OK so the background on my bike is while doing a service last year my dealer replaced the valve guides. It ran OK for about 5K then started bogging and kinda went downhill from there. I decided to save money on services and do them myself. I got the VDSTS, carbtune, gastester, shims, crank tool and all that you would need to service this bike.

During the service I found the openers on the exhaust valves were super tight. I thought it was weird but figured that if I set them correctly it would be fine. After doing the service I couldn't get it to run correctly. I tried and tried to no avail. I brought it to the dealer and they basically did a feeble job and gave it back to me saying it was fine, here you go, give us our money. I took the bike and it was better but had vibrations at higher rpm.

I didn't ride much and after a while was really dissatisfied with how the bike was running and dove back into it. I found the exhaust valve guides were shot and needed to be replaced, AGAIN. So I did this and began tuning again. I got it to run better than it was but something was still not right. I was getting fluctuating vacuum readings while trying to tune.

I found that the clamps that attach the intake manifolds to the TB's were totally loose from when the valve guides were replaced at the dealer last July. I tightened those up and got much better and consistent vacuum values instantly.

From there I have been able to get the bike running great up until about 4-4.5K. Then I get vibrations in the foot pegs and gets worse.

I have tried to tune this bike 1000 different ways and get pretty much the same results. FYI this is an 05 M620 with Slip on Termis, open airbox and DP ecu. Also, I have been at freeway speeds and pulled in the clutch to let the RPMs drop and it's smooth as silk so its not anything else than the engine.

So I have been racking my f'ing brains trying to figure out why. The only thing I can think of is that I don't have the trimmer turned up high enough.

I'm going to try to turn it up a shitload while unscrewing the air bleeds 1 3/4 -2 turns, then getting the CO I need from there and go for a test ride to see what difference it makes.

What do you guys think? I am about ready to roll the bike down my hill and be done with it.

[He Man]

What do you guys think? I am about ready to roll the bike down my hill and be done with it.

Sorry nothing to add. But im having one hell of a day installing my MBP collets. Got them installed on 3/4 valves without any issues and the last one is just racking my brain.

I havent brought it to the shop yet (they are 70 miles away), but im about to set my bike on fire and roll it down a hill.

[brad black]

fuel filter, fuel pressure, rotation sensor / gap.  can't think of anything else.

[hackers2r]

Nothing to add but be careful guys, wouldn't want those bikes rolling down the hill to collide! Especially the one on fire! Pile of flaming ducs = fail

[Bill in OKC]

Balance throttle bodies at 4000 rpm?

[battlecry]

Could the vibes be a high rpm ignition miss?  The tach gets the signal from the flywheel sensor, so if that reads ok, I would exchange the coils/wires/plugs with another bike and see.

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

Thanks guys

He Man I hope you get it figured out

Brad - I just put in a new fuel filter, how can I check the fuel pressure? I checked the rotation sensor gap and its .65mm (.6-.8mm is the range).

Bill in OK - I've balanced the TB's at 2500 and at 4K and get the same results. I also wound out the air bleeds 2 turns today and turned up the trimmer to see if it was a lean issue at higher RPM's but I got the same result, vibration city.

battlecry - I went over the whole timing and ignition system today, everything is where it should be. I  may try to borrow coils /wires/plugs from my buddies 695.

I also did a leakdown test at temperature today and got 18% air loss on both cylinders. The compression test I did a few days ago gave values of 150 psi which is on the lower range of whats acceptable.

Truthfully I think it is a bigger problem that involves cracking the cases. Crank? Some seal that is making something else unbalanced?

FYI the bike has about 38K and those were mostly all beat the shit out the bike miles. Lots of long trips (Grand Canyon, Sequoia and Kings Canyon Parks, Yosemite, Hwy 1 from Eureka to LA, Tahoe, a lot of CA's mountain passes, etc.), you get the idea.

[seevtsaab]

It's not clear from your description how bad the rideability is but based on your efforts it
sounds severe.

I would certainly verify TB sync at a higher RPM, 5K - 7K.

Swapping bits from a known good (can you ride that bike first to compare?) would be 
a luxury.

If you're feeling the vibes in the footpegs, I imaging the bars / mirror vibes must be off the scale?

[Raux]

If you had loose valve guides you may have bad valves, seats or both. That could account for the low compression.
and with the closers running too tight it could have damaged the valves and seats as well.

the shop i work with says the stock ducati valve guides are too soft and lead to a lot of bad valves and seats, even up to burnt valves breaking off pieces (not pretty). they replace the guides with a special harder material. then lap the seat and valves to form a perfect seal even before doing the valve adjustment. he gets perfect valve closure and the work lasts much longer.

[battlecry]

If I were not positive it was the engine, I'd check odd things like the driveline or the motor mount bolts.  

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

Raux - I just had the guides replaced, but thanks for the response

battlecry - Ill check the motor mount bolts today. By driveline do you mean chain? If so then no, it vibrates in neutral while revving it on the rear stand.

[Raux]

Raux - I just had the guides replaced, but thanks for the response

battlecry - Ill check the motor mount bolts today. By driveline do you mean chain? If so then no, it vibrates in neutral while revving it on the rear stand.

right the guides were replaced, but were the valves and seats checked for damage? have they been angled and ground down to create at tight seal? all it takes is a small space for an exhaust valve to cause you all sorts of havoc

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

right the guides were replaced, but were the valves and seats checked for damage? have they been angled and ground down to create at tight seal? all it takes is a small space for an exhaust valve to cause you all sorts of havoc

Sorry I read "If you HAVE loose valve guides" 4 posts ago.

But, yes they were, everything was checked out when the guides were done. Although they did have to grind the exhaust valves, they said they were cupping a little.

When I did the leakdown test I heard nothing out of the mufflers or the intake manifolds.

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

It's not clear from your description how bad the rideability is but based on your efforts it
sounds severe.

I would certainly verify TB sync at a higher RPM, 5K - 7K.

Swapping bits from a known good (can you ride that bike first to compare?) would be 
a luxury.

If you're feeling the vibes in the footpegs, I imaging the bars / mirror vibes must be off the scale?

Missed this post, The rideability is not good, it feels OK at lower rpm's but above 4500 it feels like their are washing machines on spin cycle under the pegs. I tried the sync at the higher rpm's but it didn't do any good. The vibrations are only in the pegs, the bars are fine.

[Mr Earl]

This is somewhat of a shot-in-the-dark, but have you considered replacing the plug wires?  I just did this (used Magncor wires) and the difference was remarkable.  My old wires were OEM/stock, and the bike was at ~15,700 miles when replaced.  Those old wires were completely rigid, in fact I had trouble snaking them out because they wouldn't bend at all.

Just a thought.