Countersteering question

[Cider]

I think the "no BS bike" shows that handlebar inputs are important, but personally I don't think it proves countersteering (I don't think Code claims it does, though?).  His bike doesn't show that "push right, turn left" fails; it just demonstrates that it's hard to turn a bike when you don't use the handlebars. 

Interestingly enough, there are countless videos of people turning without using the handlebars, but I think they are still causing the bike to countersteer.  BTW, didn't a member here post a video of his handlebars that showed countersteering?

[Statler]

I think the "no BS bike" shows that handlebar inputs are important, but personally I don't think it proves countersteering (I don't think Code claims it does, though?).  His bike doesn't show that "push right, turn left" fails; it just demonstrates that it's hard to turn a bike when you don't use the handlebars.  

Interestingly enough, there are countless videos of people turning without using the handlebars, but I think they are still causing the bike to countersteer.  BTW, didn't a member here post a video of his handlebars that showed countersteering?

dude, ever try to change lanes RIGHT NOW on the highway?  you can not do it without cranking pretty hard on the bars.  No amount of monkeying off the bike will turn you quickly (and back to be straight in the next lane).

You could ride all your life never leaning off the bike at all but just using the bars (goldwing or full dress tourer for example), and be very fast and accurate....but you will have a very short riding life without knowing how to countersteer with the bars.  (and I mean the plural to everyone 'you' not you personally as clearly you have track time and can steer fast). 

show me any video of someone turning the bike hard and fast in control without bars.

[Cider]

dude, ever try to change lanes RIGHT NOW on the highway?  you can not do it without cranking pretty hard on the bars.  No amount of monkeying off the bike will turn you quickly (and back to be straight in the next lane).

You could ride all your life never leaning off the bike at all but just using the bars (goldwing or full dress tourer for example), and be very fast and accurate....but you will have a very short riding life without knowing how to countersteer with the bars.  (and I mean the plural to everyone 'you' not you personally as clearly you have track time and can steer fast).  

show me any video of someone turning the bike hard and fast in control without bars.

It sounds like you disagree with me (?), but I agree with everything you said.  Bars are absolutely the most effective way to turn, and countersteering is how a bike turns (by "countersteering," I mean the wheel turns in the opposite direction of the turn).

I'm not aware of any videos that show somebody flicking a bike at high speed without using the handlebars, so I fail your challenge, but that doesn't mean you can't steer at all without the handlebars.

[Statler]

I misunderstood your prior post.  Sorry.  We're on th same page.   

[Popeye the Sailor]

I can ride a bike with no handlebars.

[ODrides]

Countersteering is not optional.  You will benefit from practicing the concept, but it you have ridden a bike you have already countersteered intuitively.  Understanding the direction of the front wheel is less important than understanding that, at speed, a bike needs two things to turn; lean angle and traction.  Pushing the handlebar causes the bike to lean.  If the tires have traction, the bike will turn.

If we countersteer intuitively why teach it and practice it?  Steady, easy turning comes naturally, but changing direction quickly does not.  Mastering the emergency lane change maneuver or correcting lean angle mid-turn are not intuitive.  A competent motorcycle rider should practice and understand that leaning the bike quickly by countersteering is the only way to avoid certain hazards.

[Statler]

Countersteering is not optional.  You will benefit from practicing the concept, but it you have ridden a bike you have already countersteered intuitively.  Understanding the direction of the front wheel is less important than understanding that, at speed, a bike needs two things to turn; lean angle and traction.  Pushing the handlebar causes the bike to lean.  If the tires have traction, the bike will turn.

If we countersteer intuitively why teach it and practice it?  Steady, easy turning comes naturally, but changing direction quickly does not.  Mastering the emergency lane change maneuver or correcting lean angle mid-turn are not intuitive.  A competent motorcycle rider should practice and understand that leaning the bike quickly by countersteering is the only way to avoid certain hazards.

Nicely put.    Great place to learn/do this is a track-based riding class. 

[WhiteStripe]

I can ride a bike with no handlebars.