WSBK Rd 11 -- Silverstone (Spoilers)

[derby]

What's the main difference? Just the gear driven cams? I honestly don't know.

last year, there was a lot of speculation that the rsv was deeply rooted in an abandoned aprilia motogp project...

some complaints from last year:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/alstare-suzuki-cries-foul-aprilia-rsv4-homologation/

and something more current:

http://motomatters.com/news/2010/07/31/wsbk_2011_rule_changes_include_an_end_to.html

[Triple J]

Interesting reading. Thanks. 

I don't see the big deal though regarding the cams. So long as Aprilia actually offers an aftermarket gear driven cam kit, then whatever. Aprilia's RSV4 Factory costs $20K. Ducati runs an 1198R...which costs twice that and surely has all sorts of fancy internal parts that the standard models don't. Aprilia can just release 250 $40K homologation version bikes next year if they want to keep the cams....they don't have to revamp all of the RSV4s to gear drive as I read it.

Correct?

[desmoquattro]

Aprilia can just release 250 $40K homologation version bikes next year if they want to keep the cams....they don't have to revamp all of the RSV4s to gear drive as I read it.

Correct?

That's what the 1198R is. A $40k homologation special. The RSV4 Factory is more akin to the 1198s.

I think the rules in question may specifically regard to gear-driven cams no?

[gm2]

they would have to offer a street bike with those cams.

The rule had originally read "The method of cam drive (chain, belt or gears) must remain as on the homologated motorcycle unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels" but the last part of the sentence - "unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels" - has been dropped.

Aprilia's use of gear-driven cams has been controversial from the start. The original cylinders are supplied with the machining required to fit the gear drive as standard, but use a chain drive to keep production costs down. The Aprilia's V4 configuration makes this even more costly, requiring two sets of gears for each bank of cylinders, and so fitting gear-driven cams to the road bike would add considerably to the basic price. Fitted as an aftermarket race kit, the gear-driven cams allow the RSV to attain higher revs and allow for more precise cam timing. The RSV4 has been fast from the start of the season, but since the Alitalia Aprilia started using the gear drive, the disparity with the other bikes has grown.

To put an end to the arguments, the Superbike Commission has prohibited fitting aftermarket kits, and all World Superbike machines must use the cam drive fitted as standard. Of course, this does not prevent Aprilia from using gear-driven camshafts completely, but it does require that the RSV4 be sold with the gear drive as standard, something which Aprilia may be less keen to do.

[Triple J]

That's what the 1198R is. A $40k homologation special. The RSV4 Factory is more akin to the 1198s.

I think the rules in question may specifically regard to gear-driven cams no?

Right...that's what I said. Add the factory available gear drive kit...and you have something closer to the 1198R. Ducati made the requirement by offering a full blown R version...Aprilia did it by just offering a kit. Seems reasonable since Aprilia has a smaller market and it would be harder for them to sell 250 "R bikes" than for Ducati to do so.

Next year they can just offer a limited run of bikes with the gear drive (akin to the 1198R) and keep them.

edit...I'm not saying the 1198R has gear drive...just that its fancy internal parts are akin to Aprilia's gear drive system.

[desmoquattro]

Right...that's what I said. Add the factory available gear drive kit...and you have something closer to the 1198R. Ducati made the requirement by offering a full blown R version...Aprilia did it by just offering a kit. Seems reasonable since Aprilia has a smaller market and it would be harder for them to sell 250 "R bikes" than for Ducati to do so.

Next year they can just offer a limited run of bikes with the gear drive (akin to the 1198R) and keep them.

edit...I'm not saying the 1198R has gear drive...just that its fancy internal parts are akin to Aprilia's gear drive system.

I wish the 1198R had gear drive

[Triple J]

I wish the 1198R had gear drive

That's the rumor for the 2011 version. 

[Spidey]

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong. . .

I thought the homologation rules changed for 2010.  Basically, they upped the number of bikes you have to sell -- something like 3,000.  IIRC, not that many 1098Rs are sold.  To solve the homologation problem, the 1198S incorporates a lot of 1098R technology, so that they can race a hopped up 1198 in WSBK.  

Aprilia and BMW were given a pass on the new, more stringent homologation rules because they were new teams.  But Aprilia took advantage of that free-pass to really, really hop up their RSV-4 with gear-driven cams.  I'm not saying they broke the rules, but it's not a level playing field.  

Now that Aprilia is going to win the championship, they should be required to meet the homologations rules.  If the 1098R can't run in WSBK, the RSVR-4R (i.e. limited edition RSV-4 with gear driven cams) shouldn't be able to run unless it can meet those same requirements.  

[desmoquattro]

Now that Aprilia is going to win the championship, they should be required to meet the homologations rules.  If the 1098R can't run in WSBK, the RSVR-4R (i.e. limited edition RSV-4 with gear driven cams) shouldn't be able to run unless it can meet those same requirements.  

...or just give us all gear-driven cams and be done with it

Technology is supposed to trickle down, ya know...

[derby]

...or just give us all gear-driven cams and be done with it

Technology is supposed to trickle down, ya know...

they're not gonna "give" anything, but you can pay for it...

i mean, you can pay for it right? you've already got one of them newfangled $40k 1198Rs, right?

fwiw, gear-driven cams aren't new technology. hell, the pre-2002 honda vfr (streetbike) had gear-driven cams.

[desmoquattro]

i mean, you can pay for it right? you've already got one of them newfangled $40k 1198Rs, right?

I have one of them newfangled $17,000 used 1198s' that comes complete with a thrown rod and a warranty repair.

fwiw, gear-driven cams aren't new technology. hell, the pre-2002 honda vfr (streetbike) had gear-driven cams.

Yep. Hitler knew it too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s

[fastwin]

And like it was mentioned earlier the new Duc SBK is supposed to have some sort of semi gear driven cam set up right? I read that in a recent cycle mag. I wish all my Ducs were gear driven. That would put the damn belt manufacturer out of business. Is there anyone else but me that thinks Ducati has a two year built in obsolescence in those cam belt's life span? Kind of like batteries and light bulbs. You want to risk bouncing your expensive Duc valves off of your expensive Duc pistons by not getting the belts replaced every two years regardless of mileage? UGH... I love my Ducatis but I wish they had my Jap SBK service intervals and needs. Let's see... gas, air in the tires, yeah, there's some oil in there, tires still have tread. OK, I'm good for another 5,000 miles.

[fastwin]

I have one of them newfangled $17,000 used 1198s' that comes complete with a thrown rod and a warranty repair.

Yep. Hitler knew it too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s

Damn, that video still cracks me up and I've watched it 20+ times!!! My wife even came in and asked me what I was now laughing at on the DMF board. She knew... she's heard me bust out too many times before! The DML/VS sell out version of that is even funnier. No, please don't post it. My sides couldn't take the laughter!!

[Speeddog]

I'm sure the $ for that Aprilia gear-drive kit will buy a make the beast with two backston of belts.

[derby]

I'm sure the $ for that Aprilia gear-drive kit will buy a make the beast with two backston of belts.