PCV/Autotune/wide band O2 sensor location questions...

[ungeheuer]

For the Autotune to be installed and tune (be it temporaily or not) a map properly on a 696 you would need two wideband O2 sensors to be installed in (or near) the stock locations.  That would be the same kit as they have for the Harley Davidsons (p/n AT-100 that is configured for 2 wideband O2 sensors). The 696 p/n is an AT-200 that comes with only 1 wide band O2 sensor...I don't think the AT-200 software would be able to simply add another wide band O2 sensor...

Dynojet has only two part numbers for the Autotune... AT-100 and AT-200...

To do the job properly on the fly I'm saying you'd need 2x AT-200.....   desmoworks is saying that you could use 1x AT-200 installed temporarily for each cylinder in turn to create a one-time static map for each cylinder.  If you want to go down this track, I'll think about buying your Autotune from you when you've created your map(s) 

[desmoworks]

For the Autotune to be installed and tune (be it temporaily or not) a map properly on a 696 you would need two wideband O2 sensors to be installed in (or near) the stock locations.  That would be the same kit as they have for the Harley Davidsons (p/n AT-100 that is configured for 2 wideband O2 sensors). The 696 p/n is an AT-200 that comes with only 1 wide band O2 sensor...I don't think the AT-200 software would be able to simply add another wide band O2 sensor...

Dynojet has only two part numbers for the Autotune... AT-100 and AT-200...

The kit AT-100 is for making dual cylinder maps on Harley twins since the front/rear cylinders are REALLY different on those bikes. The kit comes with two O2 sensors and two control modules. It also has a power lead built into plug directly into the stock Harley harness. I would guess you could modify this to work with a Ducati - you'll have to change the power lead though. It needs a 12V connection.

Kit AT-200 is designed to be used after the collectors merge to make one map for both cylinders. That's why it only comes with one O2 sensor and one control module. The way it is designed to be used is that you retain the stock O2 sensors in their original position with the PC O2 optimizers and then you weld in the O2 sensor bung after the collectors merge and that is where you install the wideband O2 sensor included in the AT-200 kit.

I've not heard of anyone using kit AT-100 on a Ducati, but besides the power lead I'm not sure why it wouldn't work. As I understand it the control modules are exactly the same - as are the O2 sensors.

[desmoworks]

To do the job properly on the fly I'm saying you'd need 2x AT-200.....   desmoworks is saying that you could use 1x AT-200 installed temporarily for each cylinder in turn to create a one-time static map for each cylinder.  If you want to go down this track, I'll think about buying your Autotune from you when you've created your map(s) 

Hehe, there you go 

[DucNaked]

desmoworks you have a pm

[loopsrider]

Thanks to desmoworks and ungeheuer...I understand the Autotune theory and how it works with the stock ECU much better now...

My plan is to install the Autotune permanently at the "Y" junction and keep the PCV system as intended, including the stock O2 sensors and PCV O2 optimizers. In closed loop I will get the benefit of the optimizers and in open loop the Autotune will be building a single map for both cylinders. I intend to do a few more engine mods so I think a permanent install of the Autotune would be a good idea...

Not sure if I'll be ahead running the same PCV map for both cylinders or not




If I decide to buld a single static map I'll throw ungeheuer a PM for first dibs on buying the Autotune

[ungeheuer]

Kit AT-200 is designed to be used after the collectors merge to make one map for both cylinders. That's why it only comes with one O2 sensor and one control module. The way it is designed to be used is that you retain the stock O2 sensors in their original position with the PC O2 optimizers and then you weld in the O2 sensor bung after the collectors merge and that is where you install the wideband O2 sensor included in the AT-200 kit.

This option does not interest me at all coz what you end up with is the same map for both cylinders.

The kit AT-100 is for making dual cylinder maps on Harley twins since the front/rear cylinders are REALLY different on those bikes. The kit comes with two O2 sensors and two control modules. It also has a power lead built into plug directly into the stock Harley harness. I would guess you could modify this to work with a Ducati - you'll have to change the power lead though. It needs a 12V connection..... I've not heard of anyone using kit AT-100 on a Ducati, but besides the power lead I'm not sure why it wouldn't work. As I understand it the control modules are exactly the same - as are the O2 sensors.

But what you're saying is that if it could be made to work then you'd still need to retain your stock (and optimised) 02 sensors, PLUS the 2 additional wideband lambdas?  

2x (optimised) stock 02s reporting to the ECU for below 4500rpm duty

and....

2x wideband 02s reporting to the PC5 for everything else

Have I got it yet...lol...    

[loopsrider]

This option does not interest me at all coz what you end up with is the same map for both cylinders.
But what you're saying is that if it could be made to work then you'd still need to retain your stock (and optimised) 02 sensors, PLUS the 2 additional wideband lambdas?  

2x (optimised) stock 02s reporting to the ECU for below 4500rpm duty

and....

2x wideband 02s reporting to the PC5 for everything else

Have I got it yet...lol...    

This is exactly my concern.... I'll give Dynojet a call tomorrow and see what they say about the single map for both cylinders

[desmoworks]

2x (optimised) stock 02s reporting to the ECU for below 4500rpm duty

and....

2x wideband 02s reporting to the PC5 for everything else

Have I got it yet...lol...    

Yep, that's why I don't like that idea. To me 4 O2 sensors is crazy (and expensive as O2 sensors do have a useful life span - we've killed many Bosch O2 senors - same sensor used in the PC autotune kit). That's why I'd suggest flashing the ECU to remove the OEM narrow band O2 sensors and the PC optimizers and then just use the PCV and autotune kit. That does assume that it is possible to either use the kit designed for the Harleys or 2 of the single kit. I've never done either of those options so that is a big assumption without talking to dynojet!

[desmoworks]

This is exactly my concern.... I'll give Dynojet a call tomorrow and see what they say about the single map for both cylinders

A single map for both cylinders was all that was available for years before dynojet started offering "advanced maps" - which is their term for mapping individual cylinders. You can definitely get better results from tuning cylinders individually on a Ducati, but the standard maps have worked fine for a long time. I don't work with Harleys, but from what I've heard they are so far off they REALLY need an "advanced map".

I was told that Ducati Performance maps are not individual maps per cylinder either, but the same mapping for each cylinder for what it is worth.

[Raux]

ok, so how much for a remap/reflash of the Siemens ECU
w/
Higher RPM limit, 11k
No o2 sensors
DP ECU map

[DucNaked]

I think it's 300, I have a spare ecu so I think I'm going to give it a try.

[ungeheuer]

To me 4 O2 sensors is crazy.....

Yup that aint a solution, agreed.

....That's why I'd suggest flashing the ECU to remove the OEM narrow band O2 sensors and the PC optimizers and then just use the PCV and autotune kit. That does assume that it is possible to either use the kit designed for the Harleys or 2 of the single kit.....

Hmmmm.... Rexxer you say......

I'll be right back.... lol.....

[desmoworks]

I think it's 300, I have a spare ecu so I think I'm going to give it a try.

Correct - we reflash for $300 or free with a ZARD Exhaust. 

[ungeheuer]

Correct - we reflash for $300 or free with a ZARD Exhaust. 

Siemens ECU for 09 M1100??   Tell me more..... 

[desmoworks]

Siemens ECU for 09 M1100??   Tell me more..... 

I don't want to jack this thread, but yes we no have the ability to flash Siemens ECUs for the Monster 696/1100 Hyper 796/1100 evo and evo SP, etc...  The software is in hand and I'm just waiting for the patch cable to arrive (the Siemens ECU uses a different bench connector than the Marelli) so we can start cracking on this 

We have the ability to flash maps, remove the O2 sensor, create custom maps, etc... For any specific questions feel free to pm or email - I don't want to get this thread any further off track!