need help installing horn on my M696

[r_ciao]

i'm trying to install the Fiamm Freeway Blaster low tone on my M696 but need electrical advice.

see reply #19 of http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=40773.15

[r_ciao]

bump

[ungeheuer]

I'm sure there are plenty of us here willing to help.  I'm just too lazy to go wading thru the other thread....

Soooo... since you've created this new thread....  whats the issue?  Its a horn. It cant be too difficult......

[Raux]

he added a new fuse with a relay i think it said. didn't work

Ung, you did the stebal with that wiring? care to point him to your tutorial

[r_ciao]

ungeheuer and raux, i'm trying to replace the oem horn with the fiamm freeway blaster, low tone.  here's what i wrote:

"it's either a bad relay, a bad fuse, bad wires or something else.  could it be me?

i believe i hooked everything up correctly.  i even tested the horn by hooking it up to the original female blade connectors.  it works, but am concerned that i actually need to install a relay to prevent future costly electrical bills.  i used the original horn wires and hooked them to the relay:  purple wire connector to relay's #85 blade, black wire connector to relay's #86 blade.  i used a wire to connect the relay's #87 blade to one of the blades on the horn, which according to the horn's installation instructions is not polarity conscious.  the other horn blade is connected by a wire that was included with the horn and is grounded to the frame.  finally, i connected the relay's #30 blade to the positive battery terminal using a wire with an inline 15 amp fuse.  the fuse is tucked in under the tank near the battery.  the wiring kit's relay is a 40 amp.  the relay is installed at the front of the bike right next to the horn using the original mount.

so what happens?  key in, ignition on, engine off, lights work, turn signals work, dash lit up, horn doesn't work.  when i depress the horn button i hear an electrical "connection" sound, but nothing else.  for the fun of it, i even switched the connectors from relay #85 and #86, and back, but still nothing.  i've since removed the relay to test the horn only using the original connectors.  yep, it still works, but i'm trying to figure out this damn relay hookup.

any advice?  please help."

so here's an update.  i exchanged the wiring kit for a new one and same thing, no response.  i put the oem horn back in for now so i can ride, but am scratching my head trying to figure out what I could have done differently.  BTW ung, i did read your install post of your stebel.  that was helpful.  thanks.

[Howie]

I don't know from your "purple" wire, but the wire that should be the one that goes to the horn and activates the relay, connect it to terminal 85.  86 is ground.  30 is battery plus.  87 is to the horn.  This assumes your relay is the same circuit as a four prong Bosch relay.  If you hook t test light to the relay at terminal 87 it should light when you hit the horn button.  Are you sure 86 is to a good ground?

The other question is do you even need the relay.  Measure the amperage draw on both horns.  If the Fiamm draws the same or fewer amps you do not need a relay.

[theprocess]

Might seem pretty basic but did you check your ground connection?  If you've used a bolt over a painted part of the frame then you might have to sand the frame for a better connection.

[r_ciao]

howie, purple wire is from the original wiring harness and yes it goes to the horn button.  this is paired with the black wire that i connected to 86.  i've tested the oem horn and the fiamm using only the original horn wires and each works no matter which terminal i use without the relay.  when i wire up the relay according to all instructions, the fiamm doesn't work with the original wires no matter which spade i put these on, 85 nor 86.  The relay is indeed the four prong relay, spades for 85, 86, 87, and 30.  I'm unsure what you mean by

If you hook t test light to the relay at terminal 87 it should light when you hit the horn button.

huh?  i don't know how to tell if 86 is a good ground.  i guess it is b/c it was part of the original wiring harness and both horns work w/o the relay.

do i need a relay?  i've been told yes.  local Duc dealer service guy says fuse for oem horn is 5A and anything over that will fry my wires.  i called fiamm and they told me that this horn pulls 6A.  their online instructions specify a 10A inline fuse. btw, i'm replacing the oem horn and intend to only have the fiamm freeway blaster.

Might seem pretty basic but did you check your ground connection?  If you've used a bolt over a painted part of the frame then you might have to sand the frame for a better connection.

i've wired the ground wire coming from the horn three different ways and neither works.  according to the install instructions, the ground wire is to be connected to the back of the horn in between the horn and the bracket that will hold it.  that's all unpainted metal to metal.  that doesn't work.  another method was to connect the ground wire to the mounting bracket where it connects to the frame in the order of painted frame, ground wire connector, metal bracket, and then the plastic relay box using the oem bolt.  i also tried frame, ounting bracket, ground wire, and relay.  still nothing.  i could change the order somehow but would like to avoid any sanding b/c i think it may make the frame susceptible to rust.  i could be wrong.

BTW, i'm a novice at this kind of stuff so any painfully obvious things for you guys might not be so obvious for me.

still scratching my head trying to figure this out...

[Howie]

OK, a relay is a remote electromechanical switch.  Terminal 30 is power from the vehicle's electrical system, in this case, key on.  Terminal 87 goes to the component you want to operate.  Terminal 85 is the "trigger"  When you press the horn switch 85 gets power. that power goes through a winding through terminal 86 to ground.  The winding creates a magnetic field, closing a set of contacts allowing power to go from 30 to 87 and the horn goes beep.  Yeah kind of hard to follow without a diagram.  Maybe someone with computer skills could draw one?

Ah here is one, though the author doesn't know 86 is standard for ground.  It will work either way.  Sometimes ground is used as a trigger, particularly in computer applications.

I assume the purple wire has power from the switch since the horn works, so ignore that part.  If you put your ohmmeter on the connector on the black wire that you are attaching to the relay and the other end to a good ground you should get continuity.  If not, you have a bad ground.  An alternative is take a test light and attach the clip to the battery.  Now touch the probe to the connector.  The test light should light.  If not, you have a bad ground.

Doh   If you are using the ground that was on the horn for the relay, you need to ground the horn.

[r_ciao]

howie, yes.  i've grounded the horn, i think...

i've wired the ground wire coming from the horn three different ways and neither works.  according to the install instructions, the ground wire is to be connected to the back of the horn in between the horn and the bracket that will hold it.  that's all unpainted metal to metal.  that doesn't work.  another method was to connect the ground wire to the mounting bracket where it connects to the frame in the order of painted frame, ground wire connector, metal bracket, and then the plastic relay box using the oem bolt.  i also tried frame, ounting bracket, ground wire, and relay.  still nothing.  i could change the order somehow but would like to avoid any sanding b/c i think it may make the frame susceptible to rust.  i could be wrong.

any other advice?  i'm not quite ready to give up, but am getting a little frustrated.  could it be that i bought two separate identical wiring kits with bad relays?

[ungeheuer]

I just did my second Stebel Nautilus install, this time to the M1100, last night.

.....though the author doesn't know 86 is standard for ground.  It will work either way..... you need to ground the horn.

Yup 86 and 85 can be reversed, I wired up exaclty as the diagram below, works fine.  And yup were assuming the horn is bolted to ground.

Original 696 stock horn wire BLACK is ground - its goes to terminal 85 on your relay.
Original 696 stock horn wire PURPLE IS active - it goes to terminal 86 on your relay.

Main juice feed direct from your battery + goes to terminal 30 on your relay.
From terminal 87 on your relay you run the switched active to your horn.
From the other horn terminal you run your groud wire.



Dumb question number 37... but I have to ask..... Since your new horn works when you test with just the stock wiring.....  and since its pretty unlikely to have TWO dud relays.....  Have you checked that your new fuse in the line from battery + to terminal 30 is good??  

[r_ciao]

ungeheuer,  been there, done that.  i did reference your post, saw this diagram and noticed that the 85 and 86 connectors are completely opposite of what came with my fiamm horn.  i've tried it both ways to no avail.  i don't doubt that it worked this way for you.

despite what my friends and family say, i'm not a complete idiot.  i think my only option now is to go to a different auto parts store and purchase a different brand of various wiring parts.  maybe the relays i bought were complete crap.

aside from that, any other thoughts?

[ungeheuer]

ungeheuer,  been there, done that..... i'm not a complete idiot. 

Not intending to suggest that you are any kind of idiot mate, just trying to understand and help.  So you have checked your new fuse to confirm its good then? 

[r_ciao]

ungeheuer, i wasn't accusing you of anything.  i was actually making fun of myself.  fuse checked, it's good.
i REALLY appreciate your help.  people like you make this forum and is one of the reasons i bought a Duc.
thank you!

[ungeheuer]

ungeheuer, i wasn't accusing you of anything.  i was actually making fun of myself.  fuse checked, it's good.
i REALLY appreciate your help.  people like you make this forum and is one of the reasons i bought a Duc.
thank you!

aw... shucks -=blush=-

Mate, it does sound as though you've done everything correctly....... You're using a pre-made wiring loom kit..... could it be there is some fundamental flaw with that which causes it not to function on your bike?  If its inherently manufactured incorrectly, doesnt matter how many times you return it for a new one it wont work.  Maybe its time to make up your own wiring so that you KNOW its good.  Not that hard to do...... now that you're in this deep