Chick ride this Sunday (09.12) with Curve Unit?

[mostrobelle]

I can say with some authority that he-who-shall-not-be-named knew what he was doing when he did it, and we were both a little surprised that he didn't get a little DMF vacation for saying it how it was said.  Nevertheless, I supported the message even if it was a little rough around the edges.  The way things were going was not acceptable.  An "oops, my bad" doesn't cover it when someone's life was on the line.  We all make mistakes, and some can be big 'uns that can involve a lot of money and property (points at self), but I would hope that there would be a slight modification from business as usual if I'd nearly broken someone in half. 

Anyways, yeah, it would be fun to get some public group rides going again. 

[enzo]

If we do this, we need to be very cautious with riders we don't know.  Perhaps over the winter we can establish a framework for how we approach group rides, because frankly I want nothing to do with the old model. 

[Spidey]

Anyways, yeah, it would be fun to get some public group rides going again. 

I'm fine with a couple a year or maybe a bit more, but I have no desire for much more than that.  This year, for some reason (likely because we've been going on rides that aren't "publicized"), we didn't end up organizing many.  And I'm pretty unlikely to go on a group ride unless I know the organizers and know what type of ride it's gonna be.  'course, this is from a guy who crashed leading a group ride in the first 1/4 mile a coupla years ago so there's a whole lotta hypocrisy goin' on here.   

But really, I'm just grumpy cuz I miss the fack outta DanTheMan.   

[mostrobelle]

I'm thinking a group ride followed by a BBQ at the 'Belle/Enzo tenement might be in order as an appropriate welcome home.  We sent him off with booze and briquettes--we should have him return that way. 

[enzo]

A DTM welcome ride sounds good, bur DTM has to ride a ratty shot out 125 dirtbike with duct tape all over it.

[DanTheMan]

All this talk about chicks, groups, and riding makes me want to hop the first flight back home  . But i get plenty of that here.

The home cooked BBQ would be a nice change from all the fresh seafood and mango shakes.

 

[sally101]

Umm Didn't we have a well attended group ride a few months ago that was publicized here? No wrecks or stupidity that I saw... Perhaps "the others" are already gone and would never attend a mob ride anyway?

No offense, but setting up a "framework" is something you would do for TPS report distribution.. If known d-bags sign up for the ride tell them no.. easy.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Umm Didn't we have a well attended group ride a few months ago that was publicized here? No wrecks or stupidity that I saw... Perhaps "the others" are already gone and would never attend a mob ride anyway?

No offense, but setting up a "framework" is something you would do for TPS report distribution.. If known d-bags sign up for the ride tell them no.. easy.

Well the issue isn't the known d-bags-it's the unknown ones.

Say fr'instance I set up a group ride, and DQ, 'Belle, Spidey, and you turn up.

At that point-you're the only one I don't know, and those seem to be the people that muck up the group rides.

So, do I play it safe and toss you for no good reason?

[sally101]

Well the issue isn't the known d-bags-it's the unknown ones.

Say fr'instance I set up a group ride, and DQ, 'Belle, Spidey, and you turn up.

At that point-you're the only one I don't know, and those seem to be the people that muck up the group rides.

So, do I play it safe and toss you for no good reason?

Luckily all those people have ridden with me before..

Perhaps a "Someone that the organizer trusts has to vouch for you" rule? Put that in your post for the ride.

I might get tossed anyway... 

[mostrobelle]

The problem, Sally, is that d-bags don't come with a big sign saying that they're d-bags.  And a lot of people that exhibit d-bag riding really aren't d-bags.  By and large what you get is a super-nice guy/gal that joins a group ride after having gotten to know the group a bit.  It isn't until you have become familiar with and like the person that you realize that they shouldn't be within 10 feet of a bike.  As a group and individually we have usually done our best to address each situation as it pertains to the individual. Often this is done quietly in person or via PM.  Sometimes it's done with a giant, public slap to the face. 

Simply telling someone that they can't ride with the DMF is a bit myopic actually, because you just shove the problem onto someone else.  It's antithetical to the concept of the idea of the DMF--we're all here to help one another and, in theory, better the riding community as a whole.  Ducati just happens to be the marquee that brings us together, but it shouldn't be the only thing that keeps us bound together. 

[Spidey]

The problem, Sally, is that d-bags don't come with a big sign saying that they're d-bags.  

That's the very first issue we should remedy.

[sally101]

That's the very first issue we should remedy.

There is an inherent risk to group rides.. That's why I (and most of you) only ride with a couple trusted friends regularly.. But even then I have seen d-bag moments with my friends, myself, and with the MOB "inner circle" (just sayin). The only thing you can do is mitigate that risk somehow. At least if someone the organizer trusts vouches for a rider, you can eliminate the off-the-street d-bags and the fack-I-never-want-to-ride-with-that-guy-again d-bags.

It's noble of you to want to help out the bad riders Belle, but in my experience the ones causing multi-bike wrecks in the A or B class just don't get it. Helping out C riders is cool, but this group tends to want to ride technical roads at B or better. Send the C's to BARF. (not hatin, that's where I got my start).

[Spidey]

I was making a joke -- I think people should wear d-bag signs.  We can start by getting one made up for 'belle.  

On a serious note, I'm all for mitigating risk and I think well-organized group rides (emphasis on organized) with more than just one or two experirenced riders leading, do a decent job at that.  Look, people are gonna make mistakes when they ride, but I'd prefer they do it on their own time when there aren't others around.  The best way to do that is to have folks ride well within their limits and to have eyes on everyone to make sure things are running safely.  But personally, I don't want to feel like I'm watching out for people all the time, so don't want to do too many 'group' rides (e.g., not every week or even every other week.  Coupla times a season is fine).  

I was concerned when one of the last rides I was on (I think ended up leading a group), I found out--later in the day--that a new-to-me rider in our group had only been riding for 2 months.  It wasn't a problem, but had I known that beforehand, I might have taken some additional steps to check in with him, to watch a bit more closerly and adjust the pace if necessary.  Or I mighta had a sweeper sit on his tail for a while to see how he rode.  Either way, that would have been good info to have before we took off.  And I woulda *really* regretted not having that info had something happened.

Like others have said, we should get group rides going again a bit more regularly (if that's what people want), but be a bit wary of how they're organized and by whom.  Let's save as much of our crashing as possible for the track.

[mostrobelle]

There is an inherent risk to group rides.. That's why I (and most of you) only ride with a couple trusted friends regularly.. But even then I have seen d-bag moments with my friends, myself, and with the MOB "inner circle" (just sayin). The only thing you can do is mitigate that risk somehow. At least if someone the organizer trusts vouches for a rider, you can eliminate the off-the-street d-bags and the fack-I-never-want-to-ride-with-that-guy-again d-bags.

It's noble of you to want to help out the bad riders Belle, but in my experience the ones causing multi-bike wrecks in the A or B class just don't get it. Helping out C riders is cool, but this group tends to want to ride technical roads at B or better. Send the C's to BARF. (not hatin, that's where I got my start).

One of the biggest issues we have is people who overestimate their abilities.  You talk about booting all the C riders out to BARF, when I can tell you for a fact that most of us in the MOB are C riders on a good day--I include myself in that evaluation.  I bet 90+% of the crashes we've had over the years of my membership here have happened at a pretty mellow pace or have happened on non-technical parts of a ride.  What happens when we get a group leader who thinks they're a B+ or A- rider and "vouches" for those in the group?  That's where we've had the worst crashes, and we've had a couple of people on here who fall into that category.  They have each had multiple ambulances visits during their rides and continued to lead group rides with little or no apparent change in their behavior.  

[TCK!]

Back on the old forum I used to set up weekly rides but the group was small back then and typically only 2-3 people would show up and it was the same people every time. Most of the time we didn't talk or do chat at the start, just pulled up and took off.

Fast forward a little bit and the SFBAHMO (close) grew quite a bit in what seemed like a short time period. I started getting tons of people showing up, one N. Bay ride I think I had nearly 40 people show up and only 6 people posted they were coming. It just got out of hand, I didn't know everyone, had to do serious tech inspections prior to the rides, started getting crashes so I just stopped.

I tried a couple times again when I got that 748, but after being told that I almost got arse plowed by someone I never rode with before I went back to just stalking BARF rides.

I think the size of the organization just prohibits the casual "lets go do mines" threads and would take active monitoring and careful planning to do it successfully. So until we get a herd of volunteers ready to dedicate a significant amount of their free time, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

An example would be the ride we did on Mt. Tam where a rider told us that they were a moderately paced rider been riding for 7 years or something. So they were put in the middle group. We get on the Mtn and their speed never exceeded 15mph and sometimes as slow as 5mph in the corners, it was ridiculous. They weren't happy about getting bumped back into the slow group but in reality they should have been just asked to leave all together.