Independent Service? The Desert Desmo Thread

[Cloner]

OK, guys.  Some of you know why this poll is here.  Others may have no clue.  Either way, please answer honestly so we have a basis from which to work.  

If you have specific thoughts or feedback please don't hesitate to sing out!

Please note, the poll allows two (2) votes per person....just in case you like boobies with your service.  

[Ratfink749]

You left off:  Dealer? Whats that? I do all my own maintenance and live life with that stupid maintenance wrench on my screen all of the time.       Boobies should always be included with service.

[Roadrunner]

I do all my own maintenance as well but, I think people would be willing to take their bikes to a different shop if the service was good and the prices were more reasonable.

Hey Ratfink, I have the VDST software and cables if you'd like to get rid of that maintenance light some day 

[nicrosato]

I have no alliance to PJ's. Issues with dealers generally involve timeliness- they're busier. Issues with a non-dealer shop is usually parts availability. I generally do my own oil changes, but maintenance items such as valve adjustment would be something I'd take the bike to an independent shop for.

I didn't check "boobies" because it's not specific enough: Whose boobies?

[DucMouse the Mighty]

BOOBIES!!  thats all i ever vote for 


on a side note...i trust you guys to do work! i like Pjs and never had a problem but i rode with you guys and i know what you all are capable of doing and think it is an excellent idea

[Cloner]

You left off:  Dealer? Whats that? I do all my own maintenance and live life with that stupid maintenance wrench on my screen all of the time.       Boobies should always be included with service.

Duely noted.  Option added.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

[Duc L'Smart]

Hmmm, none of the options (except for boobies of course) seemed to fit for me...
I try to do as much of the minor maintenance myself as I can, but not wanting to screw anything up, I rely on professionals for the serious stuff. I just don't the experience or the tools to zero out cam shafts, adjust valves, or adjust belts.

Dealers certainly have their place. They have parts, tools, & maybe knowledge that independents might not have. Even stuff we might not think about, like insurance if something happens, & of course we go to Dealers for warranty work.

There are 2 independent in Dallas that I use, depending on the situation, so it varies.

Hope that helps

Boobies

[Cloner]

I'd tend to agree with you, Scott.  You're about where I was ten years ago, or so.  Now, I've adjusted more valves, changed more belts, and rebuilt more fuels systems than I ever thought possible.  Stuart has done even more.

This whole thing came up when Tom Rolland tried to have his 851 looked at a few weeks ago and was told that PJ's would prefer not to service bikes over ten years old.  Tom's 851 is over twenty years old at this point, so I think it definitely falls into that category.  So does my Supersport.  Lots of other folks' stuff does, too.  Heck, my newest bike is an '02 MH900e that's nearly there!

Those folks who own older hardware are going to be up the creek soon if there's no independent to fill the void, so Stuart and I are considering jumping into the breach.  In fact, I should probably say that we're already in the process of filing the paperwork to set up Desert Desmo, L.L.C. as a legitimate business entity in the State of New Mexico. 



Right now, we're just talking about doing routine maintenance for all years and models of Ducatis and other European makes.....oil changes, tires, valves, belts, brakes, forks, etc.....and top end work....cams, overbores, headwork, etc.....with other things judged on a case-by-case basis, depending on our comfort level and the time required to do the job correctly.

Right now we're going to work out of my home garage until we can build a customer base and see how much fixed cost the business might support.  All thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[nicrosato]

One word- Marketing. Get your name out. Can I follow you on Twitter? Will you be offering specials (oil changes for discounted prices)? Will the Desert Desmo logo adorn your vintage racer?

L.T. Snyder of Desmo Times seems to have built a reputation by publishing his own shop manuals. YouTube is a good way to go viral. Maybe a short video illustrating a simple DIY procedure.

Or, go Wall Street and sell stock.

[Duc L'Smart]

I'd tend to agree with you, Scott.  You're about where I was ten years ago, or so.  Now, I've adjusted more valves, changed more belts, and rebuilt more fuels systems than I ever thought possible.  Stuart has done even more.

This whole thing came up when Tom Rolland tried to have his 851 looked at a few weeks ago and was told that PJ's would prefer not to service bikes over ten years old.  Tom's 851 is over twenty years old at this point, so I think it definitely falls into that category.  So does my Supersport.  Lots of other folks' stuff does, too.  Heck, my newest bike is an '02 MH900e that's nearly there!

Those folks who own older hardware are going to be up the creek soon if there's no independent to fill the void, so Stuart and I are considering jumping into the breach.  In fact, I should probably say that we're already in the process of filing the paperwork to set up Desert Desmo, L.L.C. as a legitimate business entity in the State of New Mexico.

Love your logo!



Right now, we're just talking about doing routine maintenance for all years and models of Ducatis and other European makes.....oil changes, tires, valves, belts, brakes, forks, etc.....and top end work....cams, overbores, headwork, etc.....with other things judged on a case-by-case basis, depending on our comfort level and the time required to do the job correctly.

Right now we're going to work out of my home garage until we can build a customer base and see how much fixed cost the business might support.  All thoughts are greatly appreciated.

No, Scott, I agree with you

It's fairly common for dealers to not work on stuff older than 10 years. Sounds like you have a good plan.

Another bennie for me, is that with the 2 independents I have used in Dallas, I make an appointment & they do it while I wait. I drink their beer, ask questions, & hassle them None of that drop it off & wait a month stuff... Peeps could order tires (or other parts) & have them shipped directly to the techs, ride over, get serviced, leave a small pile of green & ride away happy. (Of course some work has to be done on a "cold" bike or take longer than a day, but, you know...)

[JJ]

  Great name and Wish you the BEST friends!

I thought about this a lot & here are my views. I have been with PJ's for 4 years now and Shannon serviced my last 2 bikes as well. I trust him and since I have no skills in the garage beyond an IDIOT & in many cases ride on the edge, it has paid off through time. What also makes a difference is that it is a BUSINESS and I don't have personal commitments to any one there! I'm not very old and come from a culture of families, deeply built through generations of trust. I have learn't from forefathers that business and friendship have a narrow line of separation. It is very easy to break reputation and very tough to build it! When you maintain a list of clients and trust on friendship to rely on the maturity of business, you need to think more...since a broken trust with a friend usually breaks a chain of friends. Eventually, I'm hoping you will develop this beyond the closest circle and build the trust beyond a grapevine. Having said all this beyond my age should, I trust you and I'll count on the fact the you will not let a friend down!  I'm in Sales and every other day I have clients I have to guide to a competition as we are not a suitable solution, though we have workarounds to solve their problem! Integrity goes a long way and I'm hoping when you have a task that someone else may do better, you wouldn't hesitate to point them the right way.  

As a similar instance, I have a local mechanic for my truck in Santa Fe and I trust her (Nope, not a mistake, it is a LADY!) for any work beyond the dealership.

You will have my bike- and the future -(s).   I may think a million times before a big valve service job on a 8-valve 1098 though! For some like me, a bike is more than a machine...it is everything life means and everything I work & live for!

[Cloner]

I agree with you, J.J.  Any business that I'd want to be part of would be run more as a confederation of friends and like minded enthusiasts than as a hard-line-just-in-it-for-the-money affair.  

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I did lots of research when a friend (Paul Bunde) opened a Ducati dealership (NPR Ducati) in Watkinsville, GA (outside of Athens where UGa is located) and I put lots of thought into what makes a dealership a "destination" shop, like Fast-By-Ferracci, Advanced Motorsports, or ProItalia.  I decided that all of those shops share not only a heritage of performance, but the trust of the people they deal with, so that's where I'd start.  It's easy to keep people happy when they genuinely trust you and your work.  I already consider all of you guys and girls my family, so it shouldn't be hard for me to look any of you in the eye and give you an honest assessment of our capabilities and what I believe to be your best option, whether it's us or someone else.

As to valves on a 1098, the bike was built for maintenance compared to something like an 851, so I don't think it'd be a problem.  We don't have a shim kit for them, yet, but PJ's does and we're working on a parts agreement with him.  We'll eventually stock both the 8mm valve stems used on most two valvers and the 7mm ones used on most four valvers and some two valvers....there's also a 6mm used on 749S, 749R, some 999R, and all 1098R models, but we won't stock those unless I buy a 1098R.  

Once we have shims you should be able to make an appointment, bring your bike on a trailer (valves have to be adjusted cold.....you can start hot but you have to let it cool a while before you can accurately measure lash), watch the work done (or go goof off in Albuquerque for the day), and take it home, all on the same day.  Until then, we have a pretty good selection of 8mm shims and can have the 7mm ones within a day from PJ's.  We have a list of parts we should stock (a pretty long list comprising 7mm and 8mm shims, several timing belts, oil filters, oil, gaskets, slave cylinder seals, and a few other odds and ends) and of equipment we should buy (not nearly as long....we've got lots already between us....a tire mounting rig is close to the top of this list), so it's just a matter of time before we get to a more comfortable place.

We intend to schedule only one or two bikes in the shop at a time to begin with, so we should be able to provide a more personalized experience than most service technicians.

Also, just to make things clear, none of this is a knock on PJ or PJ's service department.  I count PJ among my friends and, as far as I know, PJ's service people do excellent work and enjoy a good reputation within our community.    We've been working with PJ throughout this whole process and he's told me personally that he supports our efforts.  He seems genuinely relieved to have someone to whom he can refer his customers with older bikes.  Likewise, Steve at MotoAuthority has been looking for an independent to whom he can refer Ducati maintenance, so we're doubly encouraged to jump into the pool and learn to swim!

Once again, thanks for your feedback and your support.  Our schedule is open, so holler when you're ready!!!

[Ratfink749]

there's also a 6mm used on 749S, 749R, some 999R, and all 1098R models, but we won't stock those unless I buy a 1098R.  

... Well damnit.. That's not much help to me then...   

You'll also need the tools to break off an reseat the tapered retainers for all of said S and R model closer shims. Also.. find the secret that some dealers seem to have pertaining to NOT removing the heads from the bike to install the closer shims.  I've heard it can be done, just not sure exactly how.

[Cloner]

That secret is called "compressed air", Wayne.  Maybe you've heard of it?   

As to tools, I generally make my own version of factory tools unless there's considerable machining involved.  If that's the case, there are usually knock-offs available.  In the case of later four valvers, I think the factory tools are in order.

The 1098 manual instructs the technician to remove the engine from the bike, then remove the heads for service.  I'll have to get the 749 manual to see if it's the same.  You can check the valves with the engine in the bike, but actual adjustment is pretty rough on 848/1098 models.  After reading the manual, I now know why a 1098 ADJUSTMENT is expensive, but a check is pretty reasonable.

[Ratfink749]

That secret is called "compressed air", Wayne.  Maybe you've heard of it?   

As to tools, I generally make my own version of factory tools unless there's considerable machining involved.  If that's the case, there are usually knock-offs available.  In the case of later four valvers, I think the factory tools are in order.

The 1098 manual instructs the technician to remove the engine from the bike, then remove the heads for service.  I'll have to get the 749 manual to see if it's the same.  You can check the valves with the engine in the bike, but actual adjustment is pretty rough on 848/1098 models.  After reading the manual, I now know why a 1098 ADJUSTMENT is expensive, but a check is pretty reasonable.

(Smacking forehead) for as many valve springs as I've replaced using this method.. I'm surprised I didn't think of this.  749D valves weren't too bad to check or adjust.  Checked the S's once. Haven't had enough of a clearance issue yet to justify altering them.  Another 3000 and then I'll worry about it.