EPA Expected to approve E15 gas

[derby]

Didn't seem to stop Indy Car racing making the switch to Ethanol 3 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndyCar_Series#Ethanol

The mixture was actually 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline, provided by Lifeline Foods of Saint Joseph, Missouri. The additives satisfied the U.S. government's demand that the alcohol be unfit for human consumption, and adding visible color in case of a fire.

[Greg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndyCar_Series#Ethanol

The mixture was actually 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline, provided by Lifeline Foods of Saint Joseph, Missouri. The additives satisfied the U.S. government's demand that the alcohol be unfit for human consumption, and adding visible color in case of a fire.

Yes I know denatured ethanol contains 1.9% or more  of non drinkable additives. Still didn't stop Indy cars from running essentially pure ethanol. OK so lets call it E98 instead of E100, to those of us in the fuel industry it's just called fuel grade ethanol.
Nascar could still run E85 if they wanted to promote a fuel that is already commercially available. To me it would make more sense to promote E85 which can be readily used in Flexfuel vehicles, rather than E15 which may or may not be compatible with most vehicles

[ducatiz]

Didn't seem to stop Indy Car racing making the switch to Ethanol 3 years ago.

Indycars were using pure methanol for the last 40 years -- 1961? -- the switch isn't that big of a deal for them.  They aren't racing cars that are ostensibly (but falsely) based on production cars.  And yes, NASCAR doesn't race cars that are remotely production homologs, but that's what they say anyhow.

[Greg]

Indycars were using pure methanol for the last 40 years -- 1961? -- the switch isn't that big of a deal for them.  They aren't racing cars that are ostensibly (but falsely) based on production cars.  And yes, NASCAR doesn't race cars that are remotely production homologs, but that's what they say anyhow.

I agree that Indycar's switch from Methanol to Ethanol might not have been a big a leap but it was done. Nascar could easily make the switch to E85 or fuel grade ethanol, as Sunoco owns an ethanol plant. Either grade could easily be supplied and they could still get the commercial tie in, and do the whole "green" or made in the USA promotions.

[ducatiz]

I agree that Indycar's switch from Methanol to Ethanol might not have been a big a leap but it was done. Nascar could easily make the switch to E85 or fuel grade ethanol, as Sunoco owns an ethanol plant. Either grade could easily be supplied and they could still get the commercial tie in, and do the whole "green" or made in the USA promotions.

Yeah, I can see that. I think it is mainly because of the new EPA regs and trying to show it is a viable fuel.  E85 could have been done as well, but there is probably SOME reason.

[Bill in OKC]

Who couldn't see this happening:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69E4BF20101015

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/top-stocks/blog.aspx?post=00000065-0000-0000-2fb7-1b0000000000

So ethanol is mandated and the corn crop shrinks dramatically.

[koko64]

I have seen news reports here in OZ of food prices dramatically rising in some developing countries because farmers were getting a better price for their crops from fuel companies. It was reported that the shortage of food put otherwise surviving communities in danger of famine.
The news reports raised the spectre of third world grain being used to fuel first world vehicles, with serious consequences for struggling communities.

We too are seeing the proliferation of E10. I hope we aren't contributing to global poverty down here. I understand our sugar farmers are starting to diversify so I hope it's only our local sugar cane being used. OZ had massive sugar cane plantations and since sugar is going out of fashion in food it is an opportunity for the farmers in our Northern states. Some have said that we have similar potential to Brazil to go alcohol fuel. They better make it undrinkable.

I think my new FCRs should be able to handle moonshine fuel, but I'm worried my fuel pump won't. I expect the diaphragms to dissolve if I regularly use E10. That is only an assumption I have made from reading about fuel pump failures in the US. In my mind I have linked the use of E10 fuels with some of the problems you guys in the States report. That may or may not be accurate on my part.

Famine, another reason why moonshine fuels are bad IMO.

[Raux]

IMO Ethanol was a short-sighted political solution for our energy woes.
It allows politicians to say they are doing something about dependency on oil, that they are helping farmers earn more money and, depending on emissions, say they are doing something for the environment.

In reality, it's creating food shortages and raising prices, will push the small farmer out as soon as the corporate farmers can get the government to create more subsidies for it, will not lower our oil consumption, has created a lot of mechanical problems for vehicle owners and it's still burning something, so there are emissions of some sort.

There are so many problems that will come from pushing E15, not the least of which will be as NASCAR  put it, storage issues. There is no long term testing on what it does to the fuel systems of vehicles not designed for it. So far we know of the tank expansion.. but what are the other concerns?

Sometimes, I wish the politicians would freaking listen to people both the engineers and the common man.

[ducatiz]

Sometimes, I wish the politicians would freaking listen to people both the engineers and the common man.

part of the problem is that they have listened to engineers and "common" men, many of whom are blinded by politics.

[Raux]

what engineer would sign off on a fuel product that is going to be put in ALL sorts of vehicles and not test it on all different kinds of storage tanks, fuel lines, seals, pumps, etc.
this stuff is pretty much poison to a fuel system IMO. tanks swelling, rubber deteriorating, etc.

[ducatiz]

what engineer would sign off on a fuel product that is going to be put in ALL sorts of vehicles and not test it on all different kinds of storage tanks, fuel lines, seals, pumps, etc.
this stuff is pretty much poison to a fuel system IMO. tanks swelling, rubber deteriorating, etc.

someone getting paid off by the corn industry?  duh!   

[mitt]

First station here in Iowa to carry the E15 AND E30!!!


http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Vinton-station-dispensing-E15-through-new-blender-pump-105518523.html

mitt

[ducatiz]

First station here in Iowa to carry the E15 AND E30!!!


http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Vinton-station-dispensing-E15-through-new-blender-pump-105518523.html

mitt

what the hell runs E30??

goddam Iowa cornholeers

If they can set up blender pumps to dispense % on the fly, then allow people to buy G100 (E0) gasoline!!

[Bill in OKC]

You guys in the corn producing states are totally F@(ked.  They are going to force as much ethanol down your tanks as they can - I heard the ethanol producers are trying to get some kind of immunity to lawsuits for damage to engines and fuel systems.  Do you think they will get it?

[Howie]

what the hell runs E30??

goddam Iowa cornholeers

If they can set up blender pumps to dispense % on the fly, then allow people to buy G100 (E0) gasoline!!

I guess all the flex fuel vehicles that can't find E85

Back when not too many states were mandated to run oxygenated fuel (MBT back then) I filled my car G100 (E0)  More midrange power and better fuel economy was the result.  The difference would be more dramatic with E10. 

BRING BACK G100!!