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Cafe' Styled 250cc by Cleveland CycleWerks

Started by Travman, November 30, 2010, 06:44:46 PM

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ducatiz

#30
December 03, 2010, 06:59:35 AM
Quote from: Vindingo on December 03, 2010, 06:56:38 AM
What annoys me is that he couldn't make it work in Cleveland or another mid-western city.
"Scott is from Cleveland, Ohio, and he tells me he tried to build the bike there but he couldn't get the support he was looking for and manufacturers he talked to shied away from motorcycles due to liability concerns."   

The fact that "manufacturers he talked to shied away from motorcycles due to liability concerns" is SO lame.  Are people really that scared of getting sued?  I think its a cop out and his way of saying I couldn't get the capital raised to build a bike in the US, so lets go to China where it will be cheap and noone will be held accountable...

actually, it's probably accurate.   i doubt it's 100% a cop out, but clearly manufacturing in china is cheaper.

something tells me doing it all over here would make the cost of the bike 3x as much.

why should we worry?  i think we do fine  -- we still make plastic bags and egg cartons here.   [roll]
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Vindingo

#31
December 03, 2010, 08:26:28 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on December 03, 2010, 06:59:35 AM
actually, it's probably accurate.   i doubt it's 100% a cop out, but clearly manufacturing in china is cheaper.

something tells me doing it all over here would make the cost of the bike 3x as much.

why should we worry?  i think we do fine  -- we still make plastic bags and egg cartons here.   [roll]

I'm sure it is accurate and I don't doubt he tried, but "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."  I'm a bit more disapointed with the local manufacturers/political leaders in the area that couldn't make it happen for him.  In reality, going overseas was his only choice, so good on him for not giving up when everyone local turned him down.    Unfortunetly, I think you are right about the bikes costing 3x as much if they were built here. 
If they attempted to match costs with Chinese manufacturing, the quality of the US made product would be crap.     

redxblack

#32
December 03, 2010, 09:53:30 AM
I'm less thrilled with this bike the more I look at the parts. Cleveland should be able to support the manufacture of small motorcycles pretty easily. The labor market here is huge and desperate. Hmmm...

jwoconnor

#33
December 08, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Even if he went over and set up the plant, which I doubt, the quality will drop the day he leaves.
2007 BMW R1200GS Adventure
2006 S2R1000

ducatiz

#34
December 08, 2010, 07:17:42 PM
Quote from: jwoconnor on December 08, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Even if he went over and set up the plant, which I doubt, the quality will drop the day he leaves.

Cleveland is that bad?
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Turf

#35
December 08, 2010, 07:25:32 PM
Quote from: redxblack on December 03, 2010, 09:53:30 AM
I'm less thrilled with this bike the more I look at the parts. Cleveland should be able to support the manufacture of small motorcycles pretty easily. The labor market here is huge and desperate. Hmmm...

No one would do it, as soon as they heard the parts they were making was for a motorcycle they bailed for insurance reasons

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Turf

#36
December 08, 2010, 07:26:16 PM
Quote from: jwoconnor on December 08, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Even if he went over and set up the plant, which I doubt, the quality will drop the day he leaves.

He didn't only go over and set up the plant he has some of his people there to continue to check the quality
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

ducatiz

#37
December 08, 2010, 07:33:06 PM
Quote from: Turf on December 08, 2010, 07:25:32 PM
No one would do it, as soon as they heard the parts they were making was for a motorcycle they bailed for insurance reasons



what does that even mean?

if they are just making the parts, they aren't liable for anything.  it's the seller/manufacturer.  you can't sue an oem who just provided the parts according to spec.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Turf

#38
December 08, 2010, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on December 08, 2010, 07:33:06 PM
what does that even mean?

if they are just making the parts, they aren't liable for anything.  it's the seller/manufacturer.  you can't sue an oem who just provided the parts according to spec.

Ask their lawyers not me, this is why we don't make anything anymore.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

ducatiz

#39
December 08, 2010, 07:39:35 PM
Quote from: Turf on December 08, 2010, 07:37:26 PM
Ask their lawyers not me, this is why we don't make anything anymore.

I'm a lawyer and I am asking why you said that.  It's nonsense.  A buyer only has a contractual relationship with the seller (i.e. assembler/designer), not the various companies that might have made the individual parts.  Same issue with the Ducati plastic tanks. It's not made by Ducati, it's made by Acerbis, but no one can sue Acerbis except Ducati.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Turf

#40
December 08, 2010, 07:47:17 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on December 08, 2010, 07:39:35 PM
I'm a lawyer and I am asking why you said that.  It's nonsense.  A buyer only has a contractual relationship with the seller (i.e. assembler/designer), not the various companies that might have made the individual parts.  Same issue with the Ducati plastic tanks. It's not made by Ducati, it's made by Acerbis, but no one can sue Acerbis except Ducati.

I know you are, and I had a feeling it is.

Got it from scott himself, Was in an interview in HFL

I'll grab the quote when i'm less buzzed.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

ducatiz

#41
December 08, 2010, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Turf on December 08, 2010, 07:47:17 PM
I know you are, and I had a feeling it is.

Got it from scott himself, Was in an interview in HFL

I'll grab the quote when i'm less buzzed.

it sounds like a cop-out.  suppliers make parts under agreement with the manufacturer/designer according to spec.  generally, even if there is no indemnification, the supplier can't be held liable unless he makes a truly defective part.

enjoy the buzz.. [thumbsup] [drink]
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

redxblack

#42
December 08, 2010, 08:10:52 PM
agreed. There are tax incentives out the ass in Northeast Ohio for manufacturing facilities. There are ample places on or near interstates, train lines and other shipping outlets. There's still manufacturing happening here. Calling it insurance is bullshit. Saying that's why we don't make things here anymore is silly. The lack of a minimum wage and police repression to keep it that way in China is why we don't make things here anymore.

akmnstr

#43
December 09, 2010, 05:43:35 AM
I think it all has to do with Lebron leaving the area.  All hope for the future has be deflated. 
"you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas!!" Davey Crockett & AKmnstr

"An American monkey, after getting drunk on brandy, would never touch it again, and thus is much wiser than most men."
Charles Darwin

"I don't know what people expect when they meet me. They seem to be afraid that I'm going to piss in the potted palm and slap them on the ass." Marlon Brando

ducatiz

#44
December 09, 2010, 06:13:51 AM
If so, maybe they can move the rock n roll to a real city
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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