Clutch lever going bad?

[erkishhorde]

What are the signs of a clutch lever going bad? For as long as I can remember I've always had to finesse the clutch pack height as though the clutch weren't disengaging all the way. (I bought the bike used). Hydraulic levels are OK and the slave is fine. The lever has a huge amount of play though. Something like 1/3 to half pull. I can't remember it ever being any better. By play I don't mean it's just flopping. It springs back fully but for that first 1/3 of the pull it's not disengaging the clutch at all and it's not difficult to pull. I also seem to have broken some kind of seal around the plunger that the lever pushes.

Update w/ pics

[DarkStaR]

Why not adjust the free play?  You seem to know that it's not right.

[erkishhorde]

It's already at max. When I got the bike, the PO had put some kind of gunk on the screw that I had to chip off to adjust it and it still wasn't enough.

[Turf]

mileage/model?

sounds like you need to bleed it

with the broken seal it may need replacing, try bleeding the system first

[erkishhorde]

mileage/model?

sounds like you need to bleed it

with the broken seal it may need replacing, try bleeding the system first

Assuming it's the original unit, 66+k. Bleeding doesn't help.

[Howie]

The only place the lever would wear is at the pivot.  Are your masters coffin or pee cup?  Oh, if the lever is original the "gunk" was put on at the factory to dissuade people from messing with it.

[erkishhorde]

Coffin. Lever says Brembo on it but I'm pretty sure it's OEM.

[brad black]

wind the adjuster all the way out and see if that helps.

if it's a dry clutch see if the springs, etc, move out in that first 1/3 of travel.  it may have a worn drum where the big star washer sits.

[erkishhorde]

wind the adjuster all the way out and see if that helps.

if it's a dry clutch see if the springs, etc, move out in that first 1/3 of travel.  it may have a worn drum where the big star washer sits.

Adjust screw is as far out as it'll go. During the sloppy part of the pull the pressure plate moves maybe half a mm. MAYBE. What's this star washer you're talking about? I don't remember anything like that and I just pulled my plates to make sure that they weren't wearing funny like the last pack I had.

Updated first post w/ pics. The only thing I can think of is maybe an air bubble right before the coffin. There's a slightly high point there where the line goes turns to go under the gauges since the outlet from the coffin actually points up slightly. Damned if I know how to check though since I've bled the hell out of this thing before including letting it sit over night a few times.

[Howie]

Good possibility.  Either angle the bike in such a way that the master is horizontal and bleed or remove the slave and push the piston in slowly so the bubble is expelled into the reservoir.  You need room in the reservoir for the fluid. 

[erkishhorde]

Any thoughts on that seal that's broken? It doesn't look like I can take it apart and replace it.

[Howie]

That seal is a dust seal.  As long as no brake fluid is coming out you are fine.

[erkishhorde]

Got the bike up on the stand so that the cylinder is the highest point now and still no luck. With the lid off, I can see that the fluid is getting pushed through in that first, weak part of the lever pull. After that it feels like I hit a spring and I no longer see any fluid moving in the reservoir. I didn't trying pushing from the slave side since I've tried pushing on that thing in the past and didn't get very far trying that.

Is there some kind of spring in the master cylinder that might be broken?

[stopintime]

Assuming it's the original unit, 66+k. Bleeding doesn't help.

Are you open to the possibility that a replacement is required? (seals, spring, ...?)

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4670.17

[erkishhorde]

Are you open to the possibility that a replacement is required? (seals, spring, ...?)

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4670.17

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it's done for. The bike is getting to that age where things other than regular maintenance items go kaput. I just don't really have the coin to replace it right now. Thanks for the link.

Hmm... Maybe I should find someone with a similar bike nearby and have them try it out to see what they think. I never pointed it out when dropping it off for service since I didn't think much of it but at a bike night I let a guy sit on my bike and he said it felt funny so I thought I'd ask. That's the only thing I don't like about getting things used. I don't know what it felt like at first, brand new off the line (15 years ago) so when I first try it out anything that seems a bit odd but not horribly wrong usually gets accepted as normal and unique to the brand. FWIW, the guy that questioned it rides an R6 and when I bought the bike, it was my 2nd bike after about 4-5months of riding and I didn't even notice that the front brake lines had no fluid.