Run what you brung

[triangleforge]

Sounds like fun -- I'd probably watch the race if it was on TV for free and I didn't have anything better to do that day. And I've got to hand it to him for thinking big -- for two to four motorcycle races a year to become "the biggest thing on the planet" on their chosen weekends is certainly ambitious. Maybe it can follow some of the models Crane mentioned -- for example, the Kentucky Derby keeps drawing attention even as interest in horse racing generally withers away.

The problem I see is that the basic concept behind the race (races?) is way too focused on the motors, and hardly at all on the other things that make a motorcycle go fast or that make any racing series interesting to me -- most notably the riders/drivers.

Smarter people than me have noted already in this thread that a stronger motor doesn't automatically mean a faster race bike, and if you start digging into the electronics packages in ways that aren't currently legal in MotoGP (say, using GPS to tailor the engine management & traction control to specific corners), you're going to blow through that "I can make a faster bike for $100,000" boast faster than a turbo 'Busa through a school zone.

But ignoring the rider in the whole equation is what's going to limit my interest in this whole enterprise, and I suspect I'm not alone. How many people are there in the world that can handle - much less excel on -- a +250hp bike that's -300 lbs? OK, from that very limited pool how many of those aren't currently under binding, exclusive contract to MotoGP, AMA, BSB, or WSBK? If you have a bunch of identical-looking munchkins you've never heard of in leathers & helmets then I find it a whole lot harder to care who's winning and losing. It'll be mediocre racing with lots of carnage and no real story line from weekend to weekend.

The one thing this concept has going for it is the reality show aspect, because it crosses a line that no other show (so far) has dared to cross: for the first time, we'll have reality TV where someone (or a whole bunch of someones) is pretty well guaranteed to die, or at least suffer terrible, life-changing, pathos-infused injuries. I'd bet that would sell. Just not to me.

[derby]

The problem I see is that the basic concept behind the race (races?) is way too focused on the motors, and hardly at all on the other things that make a motorcycle go fast or that make any racing series interesting to me -- most notably the riders/drivers.

the original ama formula xtreme concept was much like this. an "anything goes" class that brought out some interesting bikes (an r7/r1 hybrid, a big-motored, non-hayabusa gsxr, a big cbr w/ f1 tech in the motor... i think there were some exotics in there, at some point).

it was interesting to watch because the bikes were just brutal... sliding all over the splace. it was really a spectacle.

it was also interesting to see some of the younger riders take a shot on a high horsepower bike. coincidentally enough, some even went to fx as a stepping stone to superbikes.

fwiw, the rider is always going to be a factor. the limiting aspect of all these bikes is going to be tire technology and how well the rider can manage his traction budget.

[fastwin]

That's the way I remember that class. What goes around comes around. ABC Wide World of Sports had the Superbikers all those many years ago... today we have SuperMoto. The original big bike WERA's Formula USA... today, this guy's idea. Nothing really new here. Other than the reality TV angle.

[mitt]

“For $100,000, I can build a bike that’s faster than any MotoGP bike,” Crane claimed


Just quoting it again for future reference   


mitt

[Spidey]

Unless the series takes place on tracks that are just a series of racetracks, I don't think it'll be primarily focused on motors at all.   

I think a hopped-up and well-sorted WSBK bike would be the way to go.  The problem with GP bikes is that you can't ride point n' shoot b/c they need high cornering speed for grip and to keep pace.  And you can't pass on one.  So anyone riding a WSBK liter-bike with a lot of low-end grunt is gonna be able to hold a GP bike at bay.   And since the most important thing will be electronics to keep the power down, a one-off bike likely won't have a sufficiently well-developed engine to do it.  Then again, maybe allowing unlimited fuel capacity on the GP bikes, along with removal of the min weight limits would give them the grunt to compete.  

That $100k line is BS unless he's talkin' in a straight line.  

[fastwin]

On a semi related topic to the last post. Has anyone bothered to compare or keep record of actual race lap times (not qualy) at tracks where both WSBK and MotoGP compete? Like Phillip Island, etc. Of course you'd need to find two races at the same track where the weather conditions were similar. Not 40 degrees, 50 mph wind gusts and pissing rain on Rossi & Co. and then 80 degrees, sunny and no wind for Biaggi & friends. Just curious in general and to see how these thoughts and ideas that have been mentioned would play out in this run what you brung class.

[El Matador]

“For $100,000, I can build a bike that’s faster than any MotoGP bike,” Crane claimed


Just quoting it again for future reference   


mitt

Step 1: buy a used 50K desmo

Step 2: spend 8k on race exhaust and ecu

Step 3 : 10K nitrous system

Step 4 : 10 K in bodywork and tuning

There you go, faster than a. MotoGp , sub 100 k and you have 22k left for umbrella girls and hookers

In all seriousness, this sounds awesome, in a Speed Racer -half-the-field-dies Awesome

I'd give my left nut to watch it. Not to mention participate. I'm just the kind of touched-in-the-head that this sport requires. Now all I need is the skill

[ducpainter]

<snip>

I'd give my left nut to watch it. Not to mention participate. I'm just the kind of touched-in-the-head that this sport requires. Now all I need is the skill

...not to mention 100 large.

[El Matador]

...not to mention 100 large.

This, my friend, is why god gave us two kidneys and a liver that functions perfectly when halved.

[Spidey]

On a semi related topic to the last post. Has anyone bothered to compare or keep record of actual race lap times (not qualy) at tracks where both WSBK and MotoGP compete? Like Phillip Island, etc. Of course you'd need to find two races at the same track where the weather conditions were similar. Not 40 degrees, 50 mph wind gusts and pissing rain on Rossi & Co. and then 80 degrees, sunny and no wind for Biaggi & friends. Just curious in general and to see how these thoughts and ideas that have been mentioned would play out in this run what you brung class.

I *think* the WSBK bikes are a bit less than 2 seconds back.  Unless it's a zuke, in which case it was like 0.3 second.  

Edit:  here's the article I was thinking of.   I dunno if they had the same temp conditions.  And they certainly didn't have the same level of riders.  I'd never compare Toseland/Crutchlow to Rossi/Lorenzo http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/161068/1/assen_motogp_v_wsbk.html

[mitt]

Step 1: buy a used 50K desmo

Step 2: spend 8k on race exhaust and ecu

Step 3 : 10K nitrous system

Step 4 : 10 K in bodywork and tuning

There you go, faster than a. MotoGp , sub 100 k and you have 22k left for umbrella girls and hookers

In all seriousness, this sounds awesome, in a Speed Racer -half-the-field-dies Awesome

I'd give my left nut to watch it. Not to mention participate. I'm just the kind of touched-in-the-head that this sport requires. Now all I need is the skill

Wow - you should work as a race engineer if it is that easy and cheap.

mitt

[Spidey]

Step 1: buy a used 50K desmo

Step 2: spend 8k on race exhaust and ecu

Step 3 : 10K nitrous system

Step 4 : 10 K in bodywork and tuning

There you go, faster than a. MotoGp , sub 100 k and you have 22k left for umbrella girls and hookers

In all seriousness, this sounds awesome, in a Speed Racer -half-the-field-dies Awesome

I'd give my left nut to watch it. Not to mention participate. I'm just the kind of touched-in-the-head that this sport requires. Now all I need is the skill

Desmos came race ECUs and exhausts.  $8k more hookers n' blow for us!!!!  

[ducpainter]

This, my friend, is why god gave us two kidneys and a liver that functions perfectly when halved.

You don't suppose you could get the going price for kidneys raised...

my liver isn't worth anything other than something for doctors to point at and say...

see...we told you so.

[El Matador]

Wow - you should work as a race engineer if it is that easy and cheap.

mitt

Faster in a straight line , yes, right up until the piston goes through the tank, kinda why I added the "in all seriousness" afterwards

And , I kinda do wanna work as a race engineer.

Desmos came race ECUs and exhausts.  $8k more hookers n' blow for us!!!!  

Not with the optional MotoGp spec one that went for a cool 8k  

[derby]

I *think* the WSBK bikes are a bit less than 2 seconds back.  Unless it's a zuke, in which case it was like 0.3 second.  

Edit:  here's the article I was thinking of.   I dunno if they had the same temp conditions.  And they certainly didn't have the same level of riders.  I'd never compare Toseland/Crutchlow to Rossi/Lorenzo http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/161068/1/assen_motogp_v_wsbk.html

they also didn't have the same spec of tire.