Anyone a self proclaimed hydronics/solar expert?

[ducpainter]

Best move on your part   

And as far as the radiant heat on the second floor.  Worst case scenario; you drive a nail through the tubing, the nail will actually seal well and not leak, the project is completed, eight months later you notice a clear water stain, you look for roof leaks but find nothing, the leak gets worse, you open the ceiling and curse Dan and Frank, T is completely annoyed she has just lived through construction and the last thing she needs is to deal with demolition dust and drywall dust, you make the repairs and live life happily ever after...........

Should I tell him?

You make it sound so easy.

I agree the controls are going to be the key.  I don't think there are going to be off-the-shelf answers for what's going to be a very one-off system.  Somehow he's got to have enough adjustability to make it work with some trial and error.  

You know me...flexible Nate.

I've lived my whole life that way. It shouldn't be that hard to use the same approach on a heating system.

I've been in contact with the guy that built the system I linked to. I may pay him to review my plan and make the changes he feels are necessary to have it work as well as is possible.

I don't expect to get all my heat and DHW out of any system...home or factory built. I just need to reduce my fossil fuel usage because of current, and more importantly, future cost.

\

Or.  You do the floor above before the sheetrock below.  Problem Solved 

I already thought of that.

One more thought, the instant domestic hot water heater, make sure to purchase one of newer systems.  The older units are activated by a certain water flow and a delta water temp of 20 degrees.  Sending 101 degree water through the unit when your asking it to create 120 degree will not get it to fire. 

The newer unit look for a delta of 3 degrees and require much less flow (thanks to the new very low flow fixtures.)

Already considered. I'm thinking Tagaki...will fire with as low as 15 psi flow. Not sure of the delta T. I can get engineering info easily.

[sno_duc]

The house I'm living in has in-floor radiant. Slow reacting is a gross understatement, the proper word is glacial.
One of my projects is to add tube and fin baseboard on the first and secondfloor. I'll take the ~140* - 150*f  return water from the baseboard and use that to feed the (existing) tempering valve that feeds the pex tubing runs.

As to drain back systems, a house we lived in Coal Creek Canyon had a drain back DHW solar system. Works great until it doesn't quite drain all the water, then pipes on the roof freeze, and burst. PITA
Go with a heat exchanger pumping a cheap vodka water mix. Much easier.

For controls, ir it were me I'd go with a PLC. Allen Bradley SLC 500's are over kill, but they're readly available, reliable, and easy to modify.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLEN-BRADLEY-1746-A4-SLC-500-4-SLOT-RACK-W-MODULES-/220703876224?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item3362f9e480
Then if the system doesn't respond the way you want, it's a simple matter to plug in the laptop (any PC), and tweak the logic.

[ducpainter]

The house I'm living in has in-floor radiant. Slow reacting is a gross understatement, the proper word is glacial.
One of my projects is to add tube and fin baseboard on the first and secondfloor. I'll take the ~140* - 150*f  return water from the baseboard and use that to feed the (existing) tempering valve that feeds the pex tubing runs.

As to drain back systems, a house we lived in Coal Creek Canyon had a drain back DHW solar system. Works great until it doesn't quite drain all the water, then pipes on the roof freeze, and burst. PITA
Go with a heat exchanger pumping a cheap vodka water mix. Much easier.

I helped install a pex slab...it works great.

Wny did the system not drain? Poor install, or a failure of a component?

[sno_duc]

I helped install a pex slab...it works great.

Wny did the system not drain? Poor install, or a failure of a component?

It had 2 panels, the interconnect pipe had a flat run that was prone to trapping water. Nature of the roof design and where the panels had to be mounted. Could never think of a way around it.

[ducpainter]

It had 2 panels, the interconnect pipe had a flat run that was prone to trapping water. Nature of the roof design and where the panels had to be mounted. Could never think of a way around it.

I can get around that.

My collectors will be ground mounted and properly sloped to eliminate that possibility.

What I need to figure out is max distance between collectors and tank so I can use the db system without freeze up here. I'm also willing to insulate the hell out of it.

[The Architect]

I think the drain back system is a good process.  But it sounds like it's a step that can be avoided.  I know the glycol decreases efficiency but it would be nice to not have to deal with drain back. 

When coming up with these alternative systems I like to keep them simple. 

You know me...flexible Nate.

But I think your case might be different.   

[ducpainter]

I think the drain back system is a good process.  But it sounds like it's a step that can be avoided.  I know the glycol decreases efficiency but it would be nice to not have to deal with drain back. 

When coming up with these alternative systems I like to keep them simple. 

But I think your case might be different.   

But there are considerations with glycol also. The maintenance is higher as the glycol has to be monitored, there are corrosion issues with pumps, and if double wall hx are required for potable water it would make it a definite no go for me.

What are you trying to say?

[lethe]

We have a resident control expert on the forum...his services will be utilized.

Cool, an expert? Never met one of them.

[Ddan]

I think the drain back system is a good process.  But it sounds like it's a step that can be avoided.  I know the glycol decreases efficiency but it would be nice to not have to deal with drain back. 

When coming up with these alternative systems I like to keep them simple. 

But I think your case might be different.   

Set it up so whenever the house isn't calling for heat, keep the water circulating so it doesn't freeze.  Maybe a loop out in the driveway so you won't have to plow either

[ducpainter]

Cool, an expert? Never met one of them.

How about someone that can figure shit out?

[ducpainter]

Set it up so whenever the house isn't calling for heat, keep the water circulating so it doesn't freeze.  Maybe a loop out in the driveway so you won't have to plow either

I don't think it's necessary.

The system is being used in Montana as we speak. Been up for 3 years with no issues.

The driveway loop would kill the storage...unless I just use it in the summer.

I'll have T shovel. 

[lethe]

How about someone that can figure shit out?

That I can do, but I've stayed out of this thread until now because I don't know sizing of stuff.
When it comes time to buy valves and actuators though, let me know first as I probably can get them cheaper for you.
The Belimos in my basement only cost me $50 apiece.

[ducpainter]

That I can do, but I've stayed out of this thread until now because I don't know sizing of stuff.
When it comes time to buy valves and actuators though, let me know first as I probably can get them cheaper for you.
The Belimos in my basement only cost me $50 apiece.

I have another riding buddy in the plumbing heating supply biz....http://alport.com/ She's the president of the company. I'm planning on using her for the on demand heater/s and pex. Probably fixtures too. I'll definitely check with you when it's time to price stuff.

What's a Belimos?

[Ddan]

I don't think it's necessary.

The system is being used in Montana as we speak. Been up for 3 years with no issues.

The driveway loop would kill the storage...unless I just use it in the summer.

I'll have T shovel. 

Stash bacon randomly under the snow, Zip'll get through it in a heartbeat

I know nothing about DB systems, so anything I have to contribute is nonsense

[lethe]

I have another riding buddy in the plumbing heating supply biz....http://alport.com/ She's the president of the company. I'm planning on using her for the on demand heater/s and pex. Probably fixtures too. I'll definitely check with you when it's time to price stuff.

What's a Belimos?

Belimo is a company that makes actuators.
Stuff like this http://www.belimo.us/ishop/category/node/10076/chapter/10161_10076/subchapter/10166_10161_10076.xml
I forgot which ball valve ones I got downstairs and don't feel like looking but $50 is cheap