Buying a Motorcycle without a title.

Travman · January 17, 2011, 11:10:58 AM

I am looking at a motorcycle without a title from 1977. Does anybody know anything about obtaining titles? Is this something I can simply apply for or will I need to employ a Title company? I'm in VA. DMV is closed today and their website is not very helpful.

DucRS · January 17, 2011, 11:37:51 AM

In Calif:

1) Take bike to CHP so they can run serial # and verify no crooked business.

2) Present bill of sale and info from selling party along with CHP findings to DMV.

3) DMV issues new tags and title.

At least that's what I had to do about 6 years ago to a PE Enduro I was restoring.

Good luck

Travman · January 17, 2011, 01:08:23 PM

The process here is probably very similar. The problem is with not knowing the history before you have the bike. Is there a way to check if the bike is legit (not stolen) before you buy and then take it to your DMV? I'm sure the seller didn't steal it, but what if it was stolen 20 years ago? Or there could be a lien against the bike from years past.

DucRS · January 17, 2011, 01:21:53 PM

If the #s are on the bike, you can call the DMV with the #s and they'll run it through the system and let you know if it's stolen or not.

"IF" it were stolen the DMV will keep you busy on the phone and before you know it the Po Po will be knocking

How do I know? Well, I was checking on the legitimacy of a bike that was too good to be true and it turned out it was. While my wife called the #s in to the DMV , there they were, ready to haul him away.

abby normal · January 17, 2011, 01:48:55 PM

Quote from: DucRS on January 17, 2011, 11:37:51 AM
In Calif:

1) Take bike to CHP so they can run serial # and verify no crooked business.

2) Present bill of sale and info from selling party along with CHP findings to DMV.

3) DMV issues new tags and title.

At least that's what I had to do about 6 years ago to a PE Enduro I was restoring.

Good luck

unless its an older ducati with a VIN containing fewer than 17 digits. the sole reason my
14-digit-VIN-851 was titled was the sympathetic ducati riding CHP officer. they were
unable to verify provenance because of the goofy VIN and lack of response from ducati USA
and the mother ship.

ducatiz · January 17, 2011, 01:57:13 PM

Quote from: abby normal on January 17, 2011, 01:48:55 PM
unless its an older ducati with a VIN containing fewer than 17 digits. the sole reason my
14-digit-VIN-851 was titled was the sympathetic ducati riding CHP officer. they were
unable to verify provenance because of the goofy VIN and lack of response from ducati USA
and the mother ship.

that goofy vin 851 was probably a private or illegal import. my imported SS has a 14 digit vin -- straight from Italy, but it came over and was imported by a sailor who did the paperwork (DoD did it for him).

Quote from: Travman on January 17, 2011, 11:10:58 AM
I am looking at a motorcycle without a title from 1977. Does anybody know anything about obtaining titles? Is this something I can simply apply for or will I need to employ a Title company? I'm in VA. DMV is closed today and their website is not very helpful.

http://www.its-titles.com/dear15.htm

I used these guys for a few bikes I bought and they are fine. For that old of a bike, it's much easier than they indicate.

Travman · January 17, 2011, 05:33:04 PM

Quote from: DucRS on January 17, 2011, 01:21:53 PM
If the #s are on the bike, you can call the DMV with the #s and they'll run it through the system and let you know if it's stolen or not.

Thanks, that was too easy. I called the local police and gave them the VIN. They told me there are no records on the bike which means it was never reported stolen. Tomorrow I'll call the Virginia DMV to see how to begin the process of getting a title.

abby normal · January 17, 2011, 06:28:56 PM

Quote from: ducatiz on January 17, 2011, 01:57:13 PM
that goofy vin 851 was probably a private or illegal import. my imported SS has a 14 digit vin -- straight from Italy, but it came over and was imported by a sailor who did the paperwork (DoD did it for him).

http://www.its-titles.com/dear15.htm

I used these guys for a few bikes I bought and they are fine. For that old of a bike, it's much easier than they indicate.

George heubner (director of operations ducati na 1985 - 1988) claims that ducati sent
Non compliant vin bikes to the US. (Ducati, Thompson and bonello, 1998)

Scotzman · January 17, 2011, 06:49:10 PM

The current owner can request a duplicate title. I just did this in CA for same situation.

TAftonomos · January 17, 2011, 07:48:18 PM

Jumping in here, I'm looking at another 999 here in Atlanta. Guy has no title, but has given me the VIN. NCIS online says it's clean, the shop he bought it from a few months ago says it's clean.

Guy has apparently fallen on hard times, but the amount of "stories" are quite long....house fire, lost ID, blah blah blah. I need to do the same with GA DMV to see about how to title it.

Scotzman · January 17, 2011, 09:37:05 PM

Again, when I went to buy a bike and the person said, "I don't have the title, but it is mine.", the flag went up. Is there honest people out there, yes....and no. I told them they could request a duplicate title which takes a few weeks and then I would come get the bike. I put it all on them because they were the ones trying to get rid of it.

ducatiz · January 18, 2011, 04:10:19 AM

Quote from: abby normal on January 17, 2011, 06:28:56 PM
George heubner (director of operations ducati na 1985 - 1988) claims that ducati sent
Non compliant vin bikes to the US. (Ducati, Thompson and bonello, 1998)

well that I find hysterical. you have to be kidding me!

of course, the 851/888 bikes were sent to the US with slicks and no turn lights, weren't they?

there is a dude with a crated 888 in NY (give me a few to remember his name).. used to be a dealer.. bike still in the crate -- slicks and no lights...

abby normal · January 18, 2011, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: ducatiz on January 18, 2011, 04:10:19 AM
well that I find hysterical. you have to be kidding me!

of course, the 851/888 bikes were sent to the US with slicks and no turn lights, weren't they?

there is a dude with a crated 888 in NY (give me a few to remember his name).. used to be a dealer.. bike still in the crate -- slicks and no lights...

You could try reading it. He's talking about VINs
On street bikes with fewer than the required 17 characters. He claims the
Factory was told of the problem and essentially ignored the
Pleas of ducati NA.

ducatiz · January 19, 2011, 05:36:58 AM

Quote from: abby normal on January 18, 2011, 05:44:19 PM
You could try reading it. He's talking about VINs
On street bikes with fewer than the required 17 characters. He claims the
Factory was told of the problem and essentially ignored the
Pleas of ducati NA.

i did read it, i still can't believe it. manufacturers are obligated to provide DOT/NHTSA compliant VINs or be subject to huge fines.

however, the importer may also re-number a VIN for certain reasons and re-issue an MSO. when I got my bike imported, DNA issued a new VIN for it. standard procedure for privately imported bikes.

The same problem happened years ago on Cagiva bikes. the VIN contained an incorrect year code. Cagiva USA re-issued a MSO with a notice on it regarding the VIN discrepancy. I have all the paperwork on the issue, plus the NHTSA references in the CFR.

The problem didn't show up until about 8 years ago since no one was doing VIN checks. Some states have now started automated VIN checks in their ocmputer systems and blammo! you have an invalid VIN! These were all 1985-87 bikes

justinrhenry · January 19, 2011, 04:44:11 PM

i personally won't buy a bike (or any other vehicle) without a title. i also insist the title must be in THEIR name. is seems lots of people buy bikes and never bother to transfer title (i suppose they're trying to avoid taxes?)

News:

Buying a Motorcycle without a title.