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Goldline Caliper Pinch bolts - torque setting?

Started by junior varsity, February 14, 2011, 12:02:35 PM

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junior varsity

#30
February 15, 2011, 06:34:18 PM
i meant that you can't get brembo rebuild stuff, or so it seems, by going to the place where you want to go - the duc dealer. they just sell complete calipers.

that's apparently true for harley davidson too - you can't get brembo seals for your brembo equipped harley at the dealer. just complete calipers (those guys pregnant dog about it because they have to remove all the seals and such when taking calipers apart to chrome them)

yadda yadda yadda

not true for KTM. unlike the other bike manufacturers, they DO sell the caliper rebuild kits - seals, o-rings, pistons, you name it.

so i learned first that it was not possible, and i was frustrated.  then i learned some more about the calipers and did more searching. then i learned about other manufacturers, and lo and behold, KTM was happy to sell some rebuild kits.

so, if you are interested in rebuilding the brembo calipers on your ducati, all that is required is figuring out which KTM bike has the same calipers, and heading down to the KTM dealer to get the seals that ducati can't or won't sell you.

junior varsity

#31
February 15, 2011, 06:35:49 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on February 15, 2011, 06:31:21 PM
i've used the brembo rebuild kits for the older calipers and they are natural rubber. 

the main advantage of the EPDM is that it is DOT5 compatible, but also will last a jillion years longer.  natural rubber will absorb some moisture but epdm wont.

i like the idea of that seal lasting longer. it makes me wonder if the pressures seals would be available in EPDM, or if the piston sliding across it would wear on it differently.

ducpainter

#32
February 15, 2011, 06:37:05 PM
My point was that Brembo, in fact, does not sell any parts for current models.

KTM does and Ducati doesn't.

KTM have a suck ass lawyer?
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#33
February 15, 2011, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: a m on February 15, 2011, 06:35:49 PM
i like the idea of that seal lasting longer. it makes me wonder if the pressures seals would be available in EPDM, or if the piston sliding across it would wear on it differently.

call the guys at allied metric, they were very helpful. 

i was trying to find a replacement for a Paso 750 clutch slave piston that was better than the original.  he suggested a funky "U-cup" design and it works like a frigging charm. 

they also stock o-rings in colors  so if you wanted lavender orings in your calipers for whatever reason (color-code your rebuilds) they can do that.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

junior varsity

#34
February 15, 2011, 06:45:00 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 15, 2011, 06:37:05 PM
My point was that Brembo, in fact, does not sell any parts for current models.

KTM does and Ducati doesn't.

KTM have a suck ass lawyer?

Haha, perhaps. Perhaps it was also some type of contractual arrangement in which KTM was given a privilege in exchange for the sacrifice of several goats or some other promise Brembo might be interested in.

Quote from: ducatiz on February 15, 2011, 06:39:28 PM
call the guys at allied metric, they were very helpful. 

i was trying to find a replacement for a Paso 750 clutch slave piston that was better than the original.  he suggested a funky "U-cup" design and it works like a frigging charm. 

they also stock o-rings in colors  so if you wanted lavender orings in your calipers for whatever reason (color-code your rebuilds) they can do that.

well hell yes I want some froo froo colored O-rings!  i'd like the full Froot Loops treatment, please.

ducpainter

#35
February 15, 2011, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: a m on February 15, 2011, 06:45:00 PM
Haha, perhaps. Perhaps it was also some type of contractual arrangement in which KTM was given a privilege in exchange for the sacrifice of several goats or some other promise Brembo might be interested in.

well hell yes I want some froo froo colored O-rings!  i'd like the full Froot Loops treatment, please.
Much simpler...KTM assumes liability.

I think lavender is appropriate.  [laugh]
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


junior varsity

#36
February 15, 2011, 07:12:43 PM
i may get them in blue if its really no different - the bike has blue accents. They'll match (even though you won't see them). Its all about the feng shui of your motorcycle these days.

ducpainter

#37
February 15, 2011, 07:31:51 PM
Quote from: a m on February 15, 2011, 07:12:43 PM
i may get them in blue if its really no different - the bike has blue accents. They'll match (even though you won't see them). Its all about the feng shui of your motorcycle these days.
Nope...

it's all about tooling on you for having purple/lavender o-rings. [laugh]
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#38
February 16, 2011, 04:45:26 AM
i was thinking more chemical-specific color coding, i don't know why "lavendar" came out.  wife is looking at colors to paint the bathroom, go figure. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

junior varsity

#39
February 17, 2011, 09:03:16 AM
Got a moment of available phone time today so I will call about those EPDM O-rings, meanwhile I was able to get in contact with Fred at Yoyodyne, and the 30/34 piston&seals kit does indeed have the little O-rings too. I figure if the calipers are apart I can replace the seals and once-over everything while I'm in there.

Still pondering coloring the calipers. Did some poking around and saw that some folks have used KG GunKote to do the job, as it is supposed to protect, wear well, and while thin it is pretty hard since you bake it on.

Ears are open to anyone with thoughts on this.

junior varsity

#40
February 17, 2011, 09:53:38 AM
The torque value charts for generic bolts I see show 24-25 ft lbs (35NM) dry threads for M8 fasteners at the 10.9 Grade, the lower grade bolts got a lower torque...

Wonder where the dealer got their information - the shop manual had nothing for me when I dropped by AMS the other day and went through the binders in the service office.

junior varsity

#41
February 17, 2011, 09:58:29 AM
Hmm... I do 'spose I could refer to such handy charts as this one if I may use Ti bolts:

http://store.mettec.com/tech

DarkStaR

#42
February 17, 2011, 10:00:40 AM
<Sorry, I deleted the post as I don't trust my own memory right now.>

That's just the number they threw at us, and as they had the parts (which were a pain in the ass to find), we believed them.  I was slightly suprised at how low the number was, but we used it anyway.  I won't post the number as I don't want to get flack if someone uses it and their shit falls apart.  :P

jerryz

#43
February 17, 2011, 08:05:15 PM
How do u get the calipers apart??? the Hex bolts are made of cheese and even with quality tools  and held in a strong vise the dont budge but deform and an airgun makes no difference.

junior varsity

#44
February 17, 2011, 08:09:03 PM Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 08:12:08 PM by a m
step one: are you using a brand new(ish) allen socket? Gotta have those sharp edges.
step two: if i predict trouble, i get pretty liberal with the pblaster penetrating catalyst bolt-un-stickum spray.
step three: i'm not afraid to put fire onto something

the bolts on the goldline calipers (the oem calipers) are WAY shittier than the ones on the 2-piece billet 30/34 pistons (the goldlines in billet without dust seals, as it were). different grade steel bolt and the heads on the billet calipers' bolts is more of a regular socket head taking a larger hex than the 5mm or so hex you have to use on the goldlines.

on the goldlines, 3 of those bolts were seized up really tight, and one faked me out pretty good too.
on the billets, 0 of the bolts presented issue.
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