Ethical Question

[Vindingo]

I got my first physics II exam back today.  I didn't do as well as I would have liked due to a stupid mistake, but I can live with that.  There are 3 more exams, and an 85 isn't exactly a death sentence yet. It is however the lowest grade I have gotten over the last two years so I was pretty bummed.

Here is the dilemma - During our lab session I found out that half of the class cheated.  I was talking to my partner about the exam and how much time it took me to memorize the 10 or so formulas we needed to know.  She laughed and nonchalantly mentioned that half of the class just programed all of the formulas into their graphing calculators so there was nothing to memorize.  She also mentioned that because she didn't have a graphing calc that she just wrote all of the formulas on the inside of the calculator case.  The look of suprise on my face threw her for a curve, and she adamantly defended that this wasn't cheating.   

My issue - all of the tests are curved.  Because the avg was 74, there was no curve.  If they didn't cheat the avg would have been much lower and my 85 would have been an A.  Yes, I could have gotten an A on my own accord and plan on doing so on future tests, but a level playing field would be nice.  It just pisses me off that so many people cheated.   

I would never name drop because I don't want to get people in trouble, but do I vaguely mention it to the professor for the next exam?   

[zarn02]

You could test the waters with something like "So I'd heard somebody say that they'd programmed the formulas into their calculators." and see how he reacted. Has it been explicitly said that this is a no-no?

I dunno... I don't really see any attempt to "remedy" this ending well.

[fastwin]

My wife and I come from the criminal defense world, we worked at the local county criminal courthouse. The details don't matter. We dealt with liars, thieves and cheaters all day long, every day. And no I'm not specifically talking about the attorneys! We were both raised the same way and she's 15 years younger than me. You don't lie or cheat. Call it old school if you want but isn't that the way it supposed to be? Who wants to argue that one with me? What? It's OK to lie and cheat? Does getting "ahead" or scoring better via cheating make you a better person? I'm no saint, but the moral corruption of this country will eventually be it's undoing. No bible thumping morality speech here, it's just basic kindergarten stuff. Treat people nice, don't steal, don't lie and don't cheat. What the hell is wrong with that? I'd rat out the cheaters in a make the beast with two backsing heartbeat. Those are the ethics I live by. OK, I'm off the soap box. Next?

[Timmy Tucker]

Personally, I'd let karma work it out.

And, unless you're planning on post-grad at Hopkins or Stanford, I wouldn't sweat a solitary 85 too much.

[zarn02]

For what it's worth, I wasn't addressing the morality of the situation. I'm just saying that from a pragmatic standpoint, I don't see trying to fight it as ending well.

[moto-zen]

Cheaters boo! I agree with oldfastwin. I would also like to add that since you are directly affected by their actions, this is your problem. Ironically, the "right thing" to do in this case is to achieve that level playing field. I have no doubt that you will do it the hard way. And that deserves a big

[Speeddog]

You could test the waters with something like "So I'd heard somebody say that they'd programmed the formulas into their calculators." and see how he reacted. Has it been explicitly said that this is a no-no?

I dunno... I don't really see any attempt to "remedy" this ending well.

+1

[He Man]

Been in your shoes with a Quantum Mechanics class (is physics II optics, electromagnetism, and waves?)

Didnt know the whole class cheated. The book itself apparently had an answer key. The class was super tough and no one had a clue on what was going on since he didnt give out answers, and his in class examples sucked. The kids somehow got a hold of it and it was circulated. Everyone in there was an EE or Physics major ( im a civil major) so i wasnt freinds with any of them.

Bottom line is, everyone in the class passed with B's even though in class I was the ONLY one participating and answering the professors question. I thought i was an idiot for having to work so hard for a B, but these kids somehow managed to completely get it and get the same grade, yet they coudlnt answer a single concept question, let alone a math one.

I kept my mouth shut. Because in the end, you go to school to learn. Not for a grade. And nobody likes a rat. If they want to cheat and get by, let them. They only end up hurting themselves in the long run. If there is a curve, well. None of my classes have a curve except my useless electives so i cant say much about that.

HOWEVER, after last semester, I failed my first engineering class and i couldnt register for the class again because it was full and over tallied, i learned that some kids in my class who were absolute make the beast with two backsing idiots that couldn't figure out the difference btween a torque and a moment, failed and got back into the class. Reason? They got "hooked up".

Moral of the story is, if your school is anything like mine, overcrowded with retards that constantly get by through copying, slacking on team work, and cheating, then you need to do what you need to do to make sure you stay ahead of the game.

But as far as programming the equations into the calculator. I dont consider that cheating. Equations dont tell you anything. You still need to conceptually understand whats going on and how to apply the numbers and interpret them. Most of the time, i work out so many problems that the equations are second nature and i remember them cause its always the first thing i write down whenever i solve any problem. ANd if the professor didnt want you to use a program to solve the problem, then he would just make everyone use regular calculators.

a bit of a rant, but im taking 1 class right now because some very undeserving kids got into a class that i coudlnt get into. I ended up nailing the final hard and did very well on it, but didnt rack enough points to pass, but I learned and retained everything bout that class, so the 2nd time i take it will be a breeze. good luck in school. and dont get stabbed.  

[bevel]

I wouldn't call it cheating, but that's just me. I did the same thing back when I was going through High School and College. But if you've got a problem with it, double check with the prof like zarn02 mentioned.

For my wife, who is going through college right now for a BS in Nutritional Sciences, all her tests are open-book, with the entire department feeling that "in the real world, you'll either use these formulas so often you memorized them by heart, or so infrequently that you always look them up every time."

[He Man]

i always found open book tests harder.

Either you know it enough to not need the book except to verify your answer or you suck so much all you do is flip through the book and waste time. Rarely is there a middle ground.

[Vindingo]

And, unless you're planning on post-grad at Hopkins or Stanford, I wouldn't sweat a solitary 85 too much.

I'm doing pos-bacc work to apply to med school, 85 isn't going to cut it.  

Been in your shoes with a Quantum Mechanics class (is physics II optics, electromagnetism, and waves?) yup, and thermodynamics

I kept my mouth shut. Because in the end, you go to school to learn. Not for a grade. And nobody likes a rat. If they want to cheat and get by, let them. They only end up hurting themselves in the long run. If there is a curve, well. None of my classes have a curve except my useless electives so i cant say much about that.

That is my dilemma. I don't want to be that guy, but at the same time I care about MY grades and don't give a crap if they fail.

Moral of the story is, if your school is anything like mine, overcrowded with retards that constantly get by through copying, slacking on team work, and cheating, then you need to do what you need to do to make sure you stay ahead of the game.

It's a wonderful state school of NJ... you are spot on.  

But as far as programming the equations into the calculator. I dont consider that cheating. Equations dont tell you anything. You still need to conceptually understand whats going on and how to apply the numbers and interpret them. Most of the time, i work out so many problems that the equations are second nature and i remember them cause its always the first thing i write down whenever i solve any problem. ANd if the professor didnt want you to use a program to solve the problem, then he would just make everyone use regular calculators.

The week before the exam the same girl who informed me of the shennanigans asked the prof if he was going to give us the formulas.  His answer was "no, you will have to memorize them"  

good luck in school. and dont get stabbed.  

Thanks!  I am not even joking when I tell you that it has been a concern...

[Vindingo]

But as far as programming the equations into the calculator. I dont consider that cheating. Equations dont tell you anything. You still need to conceptually understand whats going on and how to apply the numbers and interpret them. Most of the time, i work out so many problems that the equations are second nature and i remember them cause its always the first thing i write down whenever i solve any problem.

That is my strategy as well.  Identify the question and write out all the formulas you need.  He does give partial credit if you write the formula... By saving it in their calc, they can get points and have NO IDEA what the question is asking. 

[Timmy Tucker]

I'm doing pos-bacc work to apply to med school, 85 isn't going to cut it. 

Hence my inclusion of Hopkins. I'm a 35 year old freshman pre-med. I feel your pain.

[He Man]

I dont think the professor really cares. Im sure he knows that you can program those things. Its not worth fighting, however if the professor is worth his own salt..... if u bring it up, he might tell everyone to bring a regular calculator next time and then it will be fair game if you studied your material and understand it well. I think that would benefit you the most.

Partial credit for writing down formulas? Thats pretty awesome!  Though chances are, if those people are in that situation, they're not passing the test anyway.

[Vindingo]

I'm a 35 year old freshman pre-med. I feel your pain.

Hell yea dude!  kick some ass and take names