Why not a high MPG sport tourer?

[akmnstr]

I’m sure you have all noticed that the MPG ratings of cars and trucks has been going up.  There is big competition among auto makers to improve MPG and I think it is a good thing.  But there has been little change in bike MPG.  My new Mazda 3 gets nearly the same mileage as my S4R!  So why haven’t the bike makers caught the bug?  There is place in my garage for a high MPG sport tourer that doesn’t exist yet.  I’m thinking if a car like the Ford Focus with a conventional engine can get 40 mpg (http://media.fordvehicles.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=34145)  a sport touring bike, similarly engineered, could get at least 80 mpg.  I don’t need 1300cc gas guzzler with 130 Hp to ride from Houston to Seattle and that seems to be the trend.  Best MPG for a reasonable level of performance, that I’m aware of, is about 60 MPG for the BMWs powered by the 800cc Rotax twins.  I think there is a niche for even better. 

[dennisd]

There have been some improvements in the auto industry; with some models.  However, I think there is still a horsepower war going on in most cases that prevents interest in high MPG vehicles.  I foresee that changing, especially this coming year when gas hits $4+ per gallon and I'm sure diesel will follow suit.  I don't think we will ever see less than $3.50 per after this summer is over.  Motorcycles are still thought of a high mileage vehicles the way they currently are; no need to improve.

I've been thinking of replacing my Mazda Miata with a Jeep; I mean a real Jeep.  Rubber floor mats, bucket seats in front and the removable small single bench in the rear.  However, I found out they no longer make one with the 4 cyl.  After talking to a few owners with the 6 cyl and hearing that they only get around 15 mpg average, I see no reason to have a vehicle that doesn't get any better than my Dodge Ram 4X4 quad cab (that I use to pull my tractor).  My Miata averages 32 mpg but I can't take it to my place in the woods because of the roads.  Go to your local truck dealer and see how many full size trucks they have with a 6 cyl.  When I worked construction, we pulled a large backhoe with a Chevy full size HD truck with a 6 cyl.  Now, every joe that wants a pickup to got to Home Depot on the weekend to buy a couple of bags of mulch thinks he has to have the biggest engine available in his truck.  Also, how many of the trucks with diesels actually work with that truck.  I see young "studs" driving diesel trucks that have never had anything in the bed of their truck and have never pulled a trailer (other than maybe the family boat to the lake).

The buying public is going to have to demand "real" high mileage vehicles before they start building more models.  Yes, there have been pretty major improvements in the mpg of new vehicles but there is still a LARGE attitude adjustment that needs to happen before we see the extreme change.  The HP wars have to stop to get the really high mileage vehicles on the road and the buying public must demand that with their purchase dollars.

Sorry to be so long winded; my point is, there hasn't really been the demand for improvement in the mpg of motorcycles.

[akmnstr]

I understand the continuing HP war that have been going on for decades and I don't see it coming to a stop.  But as the gas prices continue to rise I also see a place for high MPG motos.   The technology has been developed and it only needs to be applied.  Based upon what I have been reading in the moto mags there is interest in electric bikes which might make excellent commuters but for cross country travel and dual sport riding they are not going to cut it.  I might be wrong, but I think who ever comes out with an 80MPG moto that can perform well, is going to sell a lot of bikes.   

[mors vito]

My 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250r that I had got 50-60mpg

[Speeddog]

Primary issue preventing higher mileage motos is aerodynamics.
Bikes are *way* worse than cars in that respect.

Craig Vetter has done a ton of work in this area:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/Motorcycle_Designs/Streamliner.html

[Goat_Herder]

I guess the general public don't pay enough attention or buy enough small displacement bikes to force the manufacturers to chance.  Many parts of the world have long enjoyed small displacement and fuel effecient bikes for as long as there are bikes.

[dennisd]

I guess the general public don't pay enough attention or buy enough small displacement bikes to force the manufacturers to chance.  Many parts of the world have long enjoyed small displacement and fuel effecient bikes for as long as there are bikes.

That's the point I was making.  There just isn't a demand for one here so the manufacturers are not offering one.

[Buckethead]

My 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250r that I had got 50-60mpg

My 2006 Ducati Sport 1000 consistently gets 45+, and if I need to I can stretch it and get 50+ mpg pretty easily.

[akmnstr]

I guess the general public don't pay enough attention or buy enough small displacement bikes to force the manufacturers to chance.  Many parts of the world have long enjoyed small displacement and fuel effecient bikes for as long as there are bikes.

From what I've seen these bikes are based upon very old technology.  Back in the day, and still in Asia, a Honda 90 got +100 mpg.  But I'm thinking with things like variable valve timing, liquid cooling, feedback loop EFI light weight components, and proper tuning we should be able to achieve a high MPG bike that could still do 100mph and get 80+ MPG.  

[akmnstr]

That's the point I was making.  There just isn't a demand for one here so the manufacturers are not offering one.

I guess I don't agree that there isn't a demand but I don't have data to support my claim.  What is needed to resolve our disagreement is a market survey that would ask the right questions. 

But I do offer, with all the interest and development of electric bikes why not more R&D and press on fuel efficient bikes.

[Goat_Herder]

I guess I don't agree that there isn't a demand but I don't have data to support my claim.  What is needed to resolve our disagreement is a market survey that would ask the right questions. 

But I do offer, with all the interest and development of electric bikes why not more R&D and press on fuel efficient bikes.

+1 on electric bikes. 

I wouldn't say that there isn't a demand for small displacement bikes.  Just not enough of a demand.  In Asia, any car over 1800cc would be consider a big car and too expensive/impractical.  There are tons of motorcycle available under 600cc.  In the US, how many look for cars under 1800cc and motorcycle under 600?  There are some but definitely not the majority. 

Honda took a good first step when they decided to bring over the CBR250R.  Although I wish it would be a twin, instead of a single, it's definitely a step in the right direction.  Hope more of these bikes in different categories are made available in the US. 

[akmnstr]

+1 on electric bikes. 

I wouldn't say that there isn't a demand for small displacement bikes.  Just not enough of a demand.  In Asia, any car over 1800cc would be consider a big car and too expensive/impractical.  There are tons of motorcycle available under 600cc.  In the US, how many look for cars under 1800cc and motorcycle under 600?  There are some but definitely not the majority. 

Honda took a good first step when they decided to bring over the CBR250R.  Although I wish it would be a twin, instead of a single, it's definitely a step in the right direction.  Hope more of these bikes in different categories are made available in the US. 

Actually I find the new Honda a big disappointment.  It is inexpensive, a good thing, but it doesn't better gas mileage than the 800cc BMWs.

[He Man]

everyone wants power.

My dads old 4cyl Toyota use to haul so much shit bfore it died at some ridiculous hundreds of thousands of miles VERY few oil changes...which ultimately led to its death.

Hell the older scorpion tanks that the brits made used 6cylinder gasoine jaguar engines and those tanks weighted 8 tons!

[ducatiz]

In the USA, bikes are not primary transit for the vast majority of owners, they are weekend warrior stuff.

Cars are primary transit, hence the need to high mileage cars.

We're too busy tuning and retuning the bikes to get more HP and knocking DOWN the gas mileage..

[zooom]

1st thing any motorcyclist can do to raise fuel milage...be less spirited with the throttle...

2nd thing you can do...make sure your rolling drivetrain parts are properly lubricated and operating as they should and make sure your tires are inflated to the proper spec.

3rd thing...trade your Pongo with BigStick for something akin to the Dual Sports we were talking in the Dual Sport Thread....