2v adjustment advice

[Speeddog]

I agree completely that Ducati opened up the range of acceptable valve clearances, and increased the major maintenance intervals from 6k to 7.5k miles, so that they could claim reduced operating cost to the customer.

What they neglected to tell you about was the reduction in performance that goes along with that.

A case of not getting what you don't pay for.

[K3V1N]

Thanks again for the advice. Once my valves and belts are set I'm taking my little monster to the dyno to finally get a custom tune on my PCIII. I'm glad to hear from you guys that it should make a difference in how the bike runs. I'm currently running a canned map from the PC site. I'm going to stick to .004 / .002 for the valves this time but next time I'll plan to wait for shims and try to get all the shims to .0 on the closers.

I thought it was very cool that the tuner I talked to wanted to know my commuting rpm range so that he could get my more miles out of a tank while still making sure full throttle gave me full power.

[junior varsity]

while that helps, if you change gearing ratios, it can be a bit off. He's going to lean it out in that rev range - so pick a lower one, and keep an eyeball on temps and whatnot - too lean is badnewsbears.


don't know if you have the adj. cam pulleys on your bike (i think you posted somewhere you had a 620 or 695), but if you do - check them for correctness while you are monkeying around on the bike.  if you don't have 'em, then no worries.

[K3V1N]

The cam pulleys have 3 bolts in them. Does that mean they are adjustable?

They look like the one in this photo. I didn't think they were adjustable. http://shop.bevelheaven.com/images/cam_6.jpg

I have a 14 in the front and like that setup but I will watch it doesn't show signs of being too lean. I put 6k on the canned map that looked odd, lots of big shifts in the number.

It seems to run fine even though it smells a little rich at times. I hope I notice the difference after the tune. I did use some range on a tank of fuel after the install.

[ducpainter]

Thanks again for the advice. Once my valves and belts are set I'm taking my little monster to the dyno to finally get a custom tune on my PCIII. I'm glad to hear from you guys that it should make a difference in how the bike runs. I'm currently running a canned map from the PC site. I'm going to stick to .004 / .002 for the valves this time but next time I'll plan to wait for shims and try to get all the shims to .0 on the closers.

I thought it was very cool that the tuner I talked to wanted to know my commuting rpm range so that he could get my more miles out of a tank while still making sure full throttle gave me full power.

You are doing yourself a disservice by paying for the dyno tune with the closers that loose. When you tighten them up it will change the CO and probably the HC levels also and the fueling will no longer be optimum.

Just sayin'.

Your pulleys are adjustable, but setting them by the factory procedure is not the same as degreeing the cams.

[bikepilot]

I haven't remapped a 2v yet, but on other bikes I've gotten big mpg improvements by leaning out quite a bit at smallish throttle openings and higher rpms - where you'd be for typical commuting.  Its not so critical to lean out a particular, narrow rpm band, but just the % throttle that you'll be using to maintain speed.  No heat problems as the motor at low % throttle openings isn't working hard.  My TL did 33mpg on a good day stock.  It did 42mpg consistently after I remapped it this way (also ran much better and did quite well at a dyno day).

[K3V1N]

Hey ducpainter,

I agree that changing the closers could change the fueling and you know way more about these bike then I will ever.

I do have a question for you. If I was the first to adjust the valves on this bike and they were at .004 opener and .002 closer then my guess is they is how it left the factory. Now without a tune if I change the closers all to .000 wouldn't that effect how the bike was tuned from the factory the same as it would if I went from .000 to .002 after a PCIII tune?

So I should ether go to .000 now before the tune or always stick with the factory setting of .002 for the closer? Just curious

Ether way I hope to get a S2R sometime this season so I will only probably put another 5 to 8k on this bike tops.

Thanks for all of your advice

[ducpainter]

Hey ducpainter,

I agree that changing the closers could change the fueling and you know way more about these bike then I will ever.

I do have a question for you. If I was the first to adjust the valves on this bike and they were at .004 opener and .002 closer then my guess is they is how it left the factory. Now without a tune if I change the closers all to .000 wouldn't that effect how the bike was tuned from the factory the same as it would if I went from .000 to .002 after a PCIII tune?

So I should ether go to .000 now before the tune or always stick with the factory setting of .002 for the closer? Just curious

Ether way I hope to get a S2R sometime this season so I will only probably put another 5 to 8k on this bike tops.

Thanks for all of your advice

I doubt your bike left the factory with those clearances. Typically in the first 6K the closers will tighten and the openers will loosen. That is from normal seating of the valve surfaces and the wearing in of the half rings. That is why the clearances change. It is not from shim wear.

The bikes really do run better with closers at 0, or as close as you can get them to 0, and with openers set at .004 intake and .005 exhaust.

You will find that as the mileage builds your adjustments will become smaller and less frequent as the valve surfaces fully mate. If you kept the bike to 18K you may check them and find you have one or two closers that are loose and decide at that point...ahh screw it. The bike won't self-destruct.

I would have it mapped with optimal clearances if it were my bike, but it will probably run fine with the clearances you have now...it just could run better.

When you re-install your half rings make sure you put them back in the same way they came out or your closer gap will loosen as soon as you start the bike.

[Armor]

So why would Ducati set the minimum - not maximum, closer clearance to .002".  This would not extend the service interval.  Closer clearance only goes bigger.

[errazor]

Ducati set the minimum closer clearance to 0.000 i both the 06 and 07 workshop manuals.

[ducpainter]

I doubt your bike left the factory with those clearances. Typically in the first 6K the closers will tighten and the openers will loosen. <snip>

I screwed up...

It is exactly the opposite, The closers will loosen and the openers tighten.

Sorry.

[K3V1N]

SO!

I moved forward and pulled all the shims to measure and set them to 0 and I have a new issue. One of my keepers was broken!

Now do I replace them all at this point and then how do I account for the keeper break in which I have read is as much as .001 in the first 1000 miles?

Also one more question about this I don't get. When checking the valves with the belt off. You need to move the cam pulley back and forth a little to get the arm to be in the loose position like described in videos and tutorials. How could you ever get a clear reading of the gaps with the belts on at TDC?

Thanks again for the advice

[ducpainter]

You really can't do much about the new half ring break in because you absolutely can't preload the rocker....bad things happen.

Get it as close to zero as possible and just know that that valve will be at least .001 loose at the next check

The measurement on the horizontal should work with the belts on or off although belts off is easier.

The vertical cyl is not at tdc with the marks aligned. You have to rotate the motor so the mark on the layshaft is at roughly 3 o'clock.

[K3V1N]

I just mean that then the belts are off there is maybe 15 or 20 degrees of turn in the cam where there is no tension. I find that at one end of that turn the exhaust valve is loose and at the other the intake side is loose. I guess maybe if it was right in the middle or at the mark with the belt on they both would be loose?

Do you guys replace them all when one keeper breaks?

I guess I need to order a measuring tool from emsduc now? so I can measure what I have and order new closers?

[Speeddog]

Put the cam in the middle of the zone where it turns freely, then measure the clearances.

Replace the half-rings/keepers in pairs on whichever valves have broken ones.

Yes, get a measuring tool.