Igniteck TCIP4

[koko64]

Fitted an Igniteck unit. Was planning to do this for a while. Changed out my flywheel pickups which were failing, so went the whole hog with Kelley Coils as well.

There appears to be no advance delay on this iteration of Igniteck unit. I could detect no advance delay or 'regression' in the higher revs. The timing light showed no "coming back" of the advance as people have previously found. I am guessing that there has been a rectification of this issue which is good news. I was talking to Brad Black and he had just fitted a unit and found the same thing. Brad understands this better than me and has researched the carb 2 valver ignition (see Bikeboy.org). Brad's advice was invaluable. Thanks also to Greenmonster and a m.

I am running the as supplied default map at present with a base advance of 10 deg. I set the new pick ups at 4 deg advanced over stock (6 deg) to get the 10 deg base advance. This appeared correct with the timing light, and the maximum advance was about 32-33 deg. The timing light don't lie. I reckon I am within 1/2 to 1 degree accurate with my initial setting by manipulating the pickups.

The bike starts easily and idles very strongly. Low revs are very smooth and snatchiness is greatly reduced. Makes me think that there is more to carbed Monsters low running than just carb settings, drive train and flywheel considerations that's for sure. The sudden full advance at 2200+ rpm of the stock ignition units must be partially responsible for the rough low speed running of carbed Monsters.

Greenmonster is correct, the bike's exhaust note does sound tougher and more 'tuned'. Pretty cool.

The bike is much more responsive on small throttle openings and there is a reduction in hesitation/shudder when cracking open the throttle from cruising speeds for sudden overtaking with better acceleration.

I will start playing with the advance map, although it is pretty good with a nice gradual advance curve up to 6000 rpm to avoid pinging and promote good performance. The 32-33 max advance is consistent with what I have seen good tuners use with high comp pistons and worth 2-3 hp. I will set my rev limiter to 9000 rpm and shift light to 8500 rpm as the Igniteck has ports for this.

I must say I am very impressed.

[greenmonster]

There appears to be no advance delay on this iteration of Igniteck unit. I could detect no advance delay or 'regression' in the higher revs. The timing light showed no "coming back" of the advance as people have previously found. I am guessing that there has been a rectification of this issue which is good news. I was talking to Brad Black and he had just fitted a unit and found the same thing.

Nice to know they've fixed that.

I set the new pick ups at 4 deg advanced over stock (6 deg) to get the 10 deg base advance. This appeared correct with the timing light, and the maximum advance was about 32-33 deg. The timing light don't lie.

Hmm, shouldn't you get at least 36 max?
What flywheel do you have?

[koko64]

I know what you mean Greenmonster, I was expecting the full 36 deg, but the timing light showed 32-33. I am using the stock flywheel (lightened of course with the 36 deg full advance dot and stock lump).

Brad said that the unit would calculate the map full advance from the set base advance which I set at 10 deg to match the base advance from the default map. I was within a degree or half a degree of setting the base advance at 10 deg via the pick ups.

I was worried that I would end up with 40 deg full advance, by accidently tricking the unit, but the unit apparently doesnt work like that. Brad said that the unit would calculate the full advance as mapped as long as the base advance was correct as it is the reference point. It seems the way to accidently trick the unit (and yourself) is to have a real base advance different to what you have mapped. I may have 10.5 or 11 deg base advance which I'm guessing would give me 32.5-33 deg full advance on a 32 deg map.

I'm within a degree so I may have 33 deg full advance by my calculations of about .73ish of a degree advance per mm. I didn't drill any more dots but it appears very close. The timing light at least wasn't lying, except of course if the advance dots aren't accurate from the factory...

[greenmonster]

I was expecting the full 36 deg, but the timing light showed 32-33.

What max adv did the map say you have?

I was worried that I would end up with 40 deg full advance,

It is a bit tricky to talk about this and knowing what the reference is etc, easily confusing (I know I am...).


What I probably should have asked:
Using your timing light w the new position of pick-ups,
what is the max advance avaliable/possible now?

[koko64]

The max advance possible now I believe to be 40 deg and the timing light is at 32-33 and the ignition map has 32. I advanced the pick ups 4 deg. So I believe my base setting to be at 10 (or 11).

I must have bothered Brad with my repeated questions trying to get my head around how the system worked. He was very patient.

[greenmonster]

Thx.
It is confusing but you`ve done it properly.

Maybe some Dynoruns at Brad`s w 28-30-32-34-36-38-40 max adv?
Would be interesting, you know you want it....

[koko64]

Looking at Doug Lofgrens work, it seems as if the high compression engines like 2-3 degrees less maximum advance which brings it to 33-34 degrees. Ported high comp bikes gained 2 to 3 more horsepower with the slightly retarded max advance.
I also note the MBP run 2 1/2 degrees less max advance with their ported high compression bikes.

My bike has JE high comps, porting and dialled cams with about 180 psi cylinder pressure, which I think is moderate, so I will probably try 34 degrees max advance from 7000 rpm.

[koko64]

G'day GM

I have adjusted the map with 10 deg base advance, 10 deg at 1500, 15 deg at 2000, 21 at 3000, 27 at 4000 32 at 5000, 34 at 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000.

Rev limiter to 9000 and shift light to 8500 (for my aging reflexes).

What do you think considering our bikes engines have similar modifications?

[greenmonster]

Seems just about right.

You`d better hold Brads hand than mine is these matters. `;)

[koko64]

Yeah, I bug him with my questions. We bounce ideas around. Brad's generous with his knowledge.
I thought I would compare notes with you as your mods appeared similar.

[ducatiz]

There appears to be no advance delay on this iteration of Igniteck unit. I could detect no advance delay or 'regression' in the higher revs. The timing light showed no "coming back" of the advance as people have previously found. I am guessing that there has been a rectification of this issue which is good news. I was talking to Brad Black and he had just fitted a unit and found the same thing. Brad understands this better than me and has researched the carb 2 valver ignition (see Bikeboy.org). Brad's advice was invaluable. Thanks also to Greenmonster and a m.

I was unaware of this -- I have one of the earlier units.  Can yu point me to something on it, I don't see it on Bikeboy.  How was it mitigated?

[greenmonster]

There is a delay in the TCIP4 that results in the maximum advance being retarded from that defined by the flywheel.  In my testing, to maintain a constant advance from 2,000 RPM upwards of less than the maximum possible (say 25 on a 32 degree max advance flywheel), one degree needs to be added for every 1,000 RPM from 4,000 RPM or so upward.  So if you want a constant 25 degrees advance up to 9,000 RPM, you have the map set to 25 @ 3,000 RPM, 26 @ 4,000 RPM, 27 @ 5,000 RPM, etc.  But, if you are using the maximum advance in the map then you can not eliminate the effect of the delay.  If your flywheel and pick up position gives 36 degrees possible maximum advance and your map is at 36 degrees, then by 8,000 RPM the maximum advance in reality is back to 31 degrees.

From  http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vignition.html  .

[ducatiz]

thanks!     that's easy enough

[koko64]

Brad and I were comparing notes the other week how recent units didn't appear to have the "advance delay". We had both fitted units that didn't display the effect he previously discovered and reported on Bikeboy.

I was prepared to add extra values on the map to compensate for this 'advance delay', but the timing light didn't show the delay. Brad noticed the same thing. They must have fixed it. The unit I fitted is the later V80 version with new software.

A very versatile unit making for effective ignition tuning to different motor requirements.

[ducatiz]

Brad and I were comparing notes the other week how recent units didn't appear to have the "advance delay". We had both fitted units that didn't display the effect he previously discovered and reported on Bikeboy.

I was prepared to add extra values on the map to compensate for this 'advance delay', but the timing light didn't show the delay. Brad noticed the same thing. They must have fixed it. The unit I fitted is the later V80 version with new software.

A very versatile unit making for effective ignition tuning to different motor requirements.

I put it on my SS and removed it to do work and haven't put it back on.  The only complaint I have with it is the interface.  They need to put a USB connector instead of that DB9 serial..