CSS vs Lee Parks?

[thought]

Hey guys...

i'm looking at going to either one of these classes and i wanted to see which you guys thought was better...  in terms of xp, this will be my 2nd year riding, and i've never done any track time before.

i've heard awesome things about CSS, but i've also read good things about lee parks... and, from one post on this board, that it might be best to take the lee parks course first, and then go to a css.

in terms of $$, both seems close enough to each other that that's not my driving motivation, but it will def be more of a one or the other choice.

or is it better to just go to a track day first and take the entry lessons there?

[gm2]

or is it better to just go to a track day first and take the entry lessons there?

probably not.  some are good but the schools, that's what they do.

IMO anyone starting out that intends to ride a bike at all, anywhere, should take CSS level 1.  not necessarily beyond that if you'll never go back to the track, but at least level 1.

i'd highly recommend CSS.  they have a very solid program.

[zooom]

while CSS does have a good reputation and has been at this a long time, I think that Lee Parks Total Control course will show you a lot more beneficial to your daily riding things in terms of technique and application, but part of that is class size and the relation of direct instruction in that environment...that is just my opinion FWIW...and others will vary and have different degree's of dissent.

[Grrrly]

I've done both CSS (levels 1-4) and the Lee Parks ARC (levels 1 & 2).  My recommendation is to do the Lee Parks course.  
The ARC courses are directed more towards street riding, but you will still definitely learn skills that can be applied at the track if that's something you do in the future.  In fact you can look into the ARC course offered at a track as well as another option.  Don't know where you're located.  

My experience with the Lee Parks courses is that you get more individual attention and CRITIQUE (something you really aren't going to get at CSS).    Since ARC level 1 is on a range or parking lot, the feedback is instant, ie while you're riding/doing the skills.

If you've never rode at a track, CSS may be a little needlessly overwhelming then.

just my $.02

[gm2]

CRITIQUE (something you really aren't going to get at CSS).   

really?  not my experience at all.  but i suppose this comes down to the coach you get, somewhat.

If you've never rode at a track, CSS may be a little needlessly overwhelming then.

of course this is all totally subjective but personally i disagree.  i'd never set a wheel on a track when i started CSS.  my level 1 day was fantastic.

re most of the other comments, this thread was posted in Racing & Trackdays, and they mentioned starting with a track day as a possibility, so my reply assumed the OP was trying to get to the track.

[thought]

hey guys, thanks for the comments...

i do want to try out the track, but i'm a firm believer in getting someone to teach you the fundamentals before just heading out on your own.  and i've heard over and over again that going to the track is one of the best places to really hone your riding ability... what i want to eventually get is the reflexes to be able to handle the wtf moments that can happen on a bike.  also, the track looks fun as hell.  haha

in terms of location, i'm in the nyc metro area, so that limits my choices in terms of places to go... either the ARC in poughkeepsie, or CSS in NJMP

[zooom]

really?  not my experience at all.  but i suppose this comes down to the coach you get, somewhat.

when I went to do CSS at Barber (just levels 1 & 2 on their bikes) , I had different instructors for day 1 & 2.

Day 1 I had an aussie named Adam and I can honestly say ( partially due to various reasons) I did not like the interaction with him much...I had been to many track dates before with schooling and had not been on a 4 cylinder in years, so I was having my own issues with re-adjustment of riding style due to machine and trying to ask questions and figure things out that he wasn't prepared to deal with yet, his interest was in getting me to answer the questions directly relating to exactly what that sessions lesson was....

my 2nd day coach was Tim and I explained to him up front where my head was with Adam and the problems I experienced and he tried very hard to overcome the issues I was going through in working with me AFTER he drilled me on the exact things they were specifically covering in each session...the amount of feedback I got, roughly speaking, was directly proportionate to the amount of time they gave to each student in the short amount of time they crammed into the offtrack timeframe before having top rush up to the classroom...it would flex a little bit if others needed less time in "debrief", but wasn't something I could count on and certainly was what I had/have experienced with Cornerspeed at VIR.

Now, from what I understand, the # of students that a given instructor has to deal with( ie:how much on and off track attention you get) does having something to do with whether you are signed for just a school date versus signing up for Supercamp. Please correct me if I am wrong, but that was the very distinct feeling I got.

[gm2]

had not been on a 4 cylinder in years, so I was having my own issues with re-adjustment of riding style due to machine

what in the bloody hell are you talking about?    ALL the lessons are stick to this gear or gears, brake or don't brake.  that's it.  you start out doing 4th gear only, no brakes.  given that sort of limitation the bike is irrelevant.

they have specific drills you're doing every time out.  if you were worried about the type of bike you were riding, you were missing the boat.

[zooom]

what in the bloody hell are you talking about?    ALL the lessons are stick to this gear or gears, brake or don't brake.  that's it.  you start out doing 4th gear only, no brakes.  given that sort of limitation the bike is irrelevant.

they have specific drills you're doing every time out.  if you were worried about the type of bike you were riding, you were missing the boat.

not to sully the thread...but a Kawasaki 636(the bikes they were fleet full of at the time) feels and reacts differently than a Monster 900 aside from the ergnomic differences....so figuring out my where I should be setting my braking points and using a different powerband and those dynamics of their machine was a hurdle I was overcoming while also learning a then new to me track....I didn't miss the boat at all...the instructor was trying his hardest to not address my issues I asked him about in trying to get the most out of my sessions for to get more out of it.

[gm2]

there are no braking points when you aren't allowed to use your brakes at all.  and when you are, there are still virtually no braking points when you're allowed to use only 3rd and 4th, light brakes.  esp in level 1 you're going so damn slow the whole time things like powerband are meaningless.

whatever.. i'm sure Lee Parks is awesome!  =)

[DesmoDiva]

I would echo IG sentiments almost exactly.

I have taken Lee Parks Level I and II and CSS I-III.  I took LP before CSS. 

I can honestly say everything I learned at LP I have used on the street and transfered well into track riding with CSS.

Even with LP, I was a bit intimidated at CSS.  I found all the instructors at CSS very helpful and Code even did some 1 on 1 drills with me to boost my confidence.  I had a little issue with my instructor on the second day, and Code saw to it that I would have a different instructor the following day.  I feel they (CSS) did everything in their power to ensure that I had a great experience.

I would also recommend LP over CSS.

Not matter which you choose, keep the communication flowing in both directions.  If you are not understanding a drill/exercise ask for it to be explained differently.  Instructors are not mind readers, so don't be afraid to speak up with something isn't workng.  Education is a two way street. 

 [moto]

[Grrrly]

in terms of location, i'm in the nyc metro area, so that limits my choices in terms of places to go... either the ARC in poughkeepsie, or CSS in NJMP

FYI I'm in NYC as well. I live in both Manhattan and The Bronx, but I call The Bronx home.     Check out  DESMO If interested sign up for the DESMO trackday.   

[thought]

FYI I'm in NYC as well. I live in both Manhattan and The Bronx, but I call The Bronx home.     Check out  DESMO If interested sign up for the DESMO trackday.   

cool, just joined... i'll have to see what kind of schedule i'll have during the summer before i can commit to a track day... it's one of those years that everyone you seem to know is getting married.