'96 M900 electrical issues/starting

Nomad · April 15, 2011, 12:43:18 PM

Finally got my bike running after having basically everything off it and replaced this winter, ran lovely for 2 days, now it wont start.

-Rode it some, parked it for the night.
-had some small issues starting it, took a few tries and it wanted to die as soon as I started it, so it took a few tries.
-rode it about 10 miles away, turned it off for maybe 15-20 minutes.
-started right up again, no problems, rode to a restaurant.
-sat for about an hour or so, went back out to fire it up and cannot get it to start.

It is making a small chug when I hit the button, but it isn't cranking the engine. I tried jumping it from a car (not running) and that did nothing. I tried bump starting it, probably not doing it right, but that didn't help either. So far as I know the battery is good, the lights work fine, though they dim a tad when I hit the button. I figure since I tried jumping it, the battery shouldn't be suspect. The starter is making some small noises, but isn't turning the engine.... really hoping it isn't he starter.
I've read the other threads on these issues, but as someone else mentioned, they all seem to be pretty specific.

I'm guessing I need to check connections (did that)
- jump the solenoid? I don't really know what that means, just connect the two terminals while trying to start the bike? Would this be the same as running a cable from the positive battery terminal to the nub on the starter?

If that doesn't solve my problems, this means i have a bad starter?

Howie · April 15, 2011, 02:23:13 PM

The fact that the battery can light the headlight doesn't mean the battery is good. The starter, computer and fuel pump draw much more amperage than the headlight. First step is always charge and load test the battery to make sure it is good. Then go on to connections, including engine ground. Visual inspection is not good enough. Either disassemble and clean or measure voltage drop across the connections under load (starter trying to crank engine) Jumping the solenoid is simply bypassing the solenoid by going from big terminal to big terminal with a suitably large conductor. Oh, not while trying to start the bike. If the engine now cranks properly the solenoid or a connection at the solenoid is the culprit. Do make sure the bike is in neutral since you are also bypassing all safeties. Going directly from battery to starter bypasses everything but ground, but is meaningless unless you know the battery is good. Again, you are bypassing all safeties, so make sure the bike is in neutral. If you decide to clean the connection at the starter use caution. It is delicate.

Here is a good link on voltage drop testing:
http://www.vernco.com/Sparks/id606.htm

Nomad · April 15, 2011, 06:27:32 PM

Quote from: howie on April 15, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
The fact that the battery can light the headlight doesn't mean the battery is good. The starter, computer and fuel pump draw much more amperage than the headlight. First step is always charge and load test the battery to make sure it is good. Then go on to connections, including engine ground. Visual inspection is not good enough. Either disassemble and clean or measure voltage drop across the connections under load (starter trying to crank engine) Jumping the solenoid is simply bypassing the solenoid by going from big terminal to big terminal with a suitably large conductor. Oh, not while trying to start the bike. If the engine now cranks properly the solenoid or a connection at the solenoid is the culprit. Do make sure the bike is in neutral since you are also bypassing all safeties. Going directly from battery to starter bypasses everything but ground, but is meaningless unless you know the battery is good. Again, you are bypassing all safeties, so make sure the bike is in neutral. If you decide to clean the connection at the starter use caution. It is delicate.

Here is a good link on voltage drop testing:
http://www.vernco.com/Sparks/id606.htm

I'm assuming the battery is ok because I tried to jump it from a car battery and it made no difference. The bike doesn't crank at all, just makes the initial clicking noises when I press the button...
Oh, and one of the things I did this winter was replace the original cables with the Powerlet set, including a new nut on the starter because the old one was corroded. So everything is pretty new, new nut on the ground connection as well.

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 09:24:35 AM

So the electrical issue seems to have solved itself, I went back to check things out and it fired right up!

Then I drove it about 10 feet and oil started shooting out of the crankcase breather box

ducpainter · April 16, 2011, 09:26:19 AM

Is the oil level really high?

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 09:37:03 AM

Quote from: ducpainter on April 16, 2011, 09:26:19 AM
Is the oil level really high?

The oil level was at about the 'high' mark, but I rode it for two days with no issues whatsoever. Now, it idled for a bit, then I went to take off, went literally ten feet and noticed oil smoke everywhere so I shut it off and checked it out. There was a significant amount of oil over everything. (I have the hose to the airbox removed because of the FCR kit).
I wasn't sure at first where the oil was coming from, so I turned it on again and when I revved the engine a little, oil would shoot out of the breather box. So I shut things down, pushed it behind the restaurant again, and came here to see what I could find out...
There's a possibility it was over full with oil, but I don't know why it would run fine for two days, then sit for a day and dump oil everywhere now. Also, the sight glass when I looked at it after this fiasco was completely black, and didn't improve after the five minutes I sat around and looked at it.

ducpainter · April 16, 2011, 09:43:59 AM

Quote from: Nomad on April 16, 2011, 09:37:03 AM
The oil level was at about the 'high' mark, but I rode it for two days with no issues whatsoever. Now, it idled for a bit, then I went to take off, went literally ten feet and noticed oil smoke everywhere so I shut it off and checked it out. There was a significant amount of oil over everything. (I have the hose to the airbox removed because of the FCR kit).
I wasn't sure at first where the oil was coming from, so I turned it on again and when I revved the engine a little, oil would shoot out of the breather box. So I shut things down, pushed it behind the restaurant again, and came here to see what I could find out...
There's a possibility it was over full with oil, but I don't know why it would run fine for two days, then sit for a day and dump oil everywhere now. Also, the sight glass when I looked at it after this fiasco was completely black, and didn't improve after the five minutes I sat around and looked at it.

I'm thinking fuel entered your cases through the vacuum petcock, which has failed.

You need to replace the vacuum petcock with a manual shut off and change your oil and filter.

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 09:53:25 AM

Okay thanks, will do... could you point me in the right direction for information to make this switch, I don't even know what a petcock is....

ducpainter · April 16, 2011, 09:59:40 AM

if you do a search for manual petcock or manual fuel shut off you'll get pages of threads.

The vacuum deal is under the tank hinge and has a vacuum line going to the horizontal manifold. That's how the gas got into the cases. It will need to be removed/plugged. You can get a shut off anywhere. Parts Unlimited dealers can get you one, or you could try any moto shop, or maybe even an equipment dealer. You need 5/16" in and out. Put it anywhere that's convenient to access.

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 10:04:53 AM

Okay, so I just take the vacuum petcock off, and in its place put one of these?

ducpainter · April 16, 2011, 10:07:02 AM

Quote from: Nomad on April 16, 2011, 10:04:53 AM
Okay, so I just take the vacuum petcock off, and in its place put one of these?

That will work.

Don't forget something to plug the vacuum line on the manifold.

And your oil and filter of course. Don't run it any more until you change the oil.

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 10:11:31 AM

Right on, your help is much appreciated, everything in Germany is closed on Sunday, so will have to wait until Monday to track something down. I hate to impose on you any more, but it is quite a drive to the bike, so I'd like to show up with everything I need... what do I need in order to plug that vacuum line?

ducpainter · April 16, 2011, 10:21:20 AM

Quote from: Nomad on April 16, 2011, 10:11:31 AM
Right on, your help is much appreciated, everything in Germany is closed on Sunday, so will have to wait until Monday to track something down. I hate to impose on you any more, but it is quite a drive to the bike, so I'd like to show up with everything I need... what do I need in order to plug that vacuum line?

I think the id of the hose is about 5mm, so you could stick a bolt in it, or get a vacuum cap...

like this...

Nomad · April 16, 2011, 10:36:53 AM

Thanks, will be tracking these things down monday!

Nomad · April 18, 2011, 10:18:18 AM

Got her all back up and running, for the amount of hassle that stupid ass vacuum pump can give you, I don't even know why they would ever put one on there.
When I drained the oil it was mostly gas, filled up the entire oil pan and then some, ridiculous.

Thank you very much for the help ducpainter, managed to drop my tank while it was off and scuff it up, and it was already in need of a paint job. Should be back in the states soon, so hopefully will be sending it your way next winter!

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'96 M900 electrical issues/starting