Tactical Shotgun

[ducducgooseme]

i should have posted some of the LEO type tactical s/gs.  they just have more shit on them that i don't think is generally useful except for scare stuff (i.e. the flashlight which is for blinding ppl) esp for non-LEOs

what gun is that?

[ducatiz]

what gun is that?

one of Les Jones' custom jobs.

here is another one:

[NeufUnSix]

You know, I was wondering if there was a double-barrel pump action. I was designing one in my head thinking it hadn't been done before.

[hyphen]

Im researching tactical shotguns.  I think a SS Marine 870 with pistol grip would be ideal but larger $$s than a pistol gripped 870 Express. 

Can anyone give me a reason why I should go folding stock over the compact pistol grip?  Any suggestions for light mounts?  Mag tube extenders?

Thx

Get the marine.  the express might be cheaper but for a reason.  Cheaper internals are not something I'm a big fan of (including plastic guns in general like the 870, M500, glocks, xds, etc).  In my experience I've had an easier time firing shotguns with pistol grips.  With that said, there are pistol grip/folding stocks.  Also, if you get the marine 870 it comes with an extended magazine.  Extending it further is not possible.

Light mounts, Tac Light is probably the way to.

Anyway, I personally think these "tactical" weapon builds are pretty silly.  The practical use of all these things are zilch in your average home, unless you live on Grape Street in Compton or something.  It's all just hype to get people to buy guns because they look cooler to the younger crowd.  I mean, the chances of you getting into a firefight in which you need to expend all 7+1 rounds of 00 buckshot in your home is pretty damn slim.  On top of that, have you ever fired a gun in a house before?  My GP100 .357 magnum rings my ears at the range, a 12ga in a house with no ear protection will QUICKLY send the other person running and have you not wanting to shoot just as fast as he turns tail.

With that out of the way, I am a bigger fan of walnut stock side-by-sides and over-unders.  They're just timeless guns that go boom.  A gun you can really pass down to your kids and grand kids.  Whereas passing along an 870 is like telling your kid he's inheriting your honda civic.  At any rate, I'm done with my spiel.  Let me know if you need any help, I'm a pretty big enthusiast.

[raulduke]

+1 ducatizzz and hyphen

tactical shotgun concept is flawed and basically unnecessary.  If you want a shotgun for home defense you have to ask yourself why.  Are you a really bad shot?  Do you wear glasses and worry about waking up with un-corrected vision?  Do you think the intimidation factor is a plus? (Might seem that way but I have found when you point a gun...any gun, at someone you are working from the position of strength....shotgun, .45, .38...the other guy always thinks "shit, I'm dead"...in the real world).

But let's just say you are going to get a shotgun.  I have cheaper option that will do the job for a 1/2 the cost and look nice doing it.  Get a coach gun.  These guns have been revived by the SASS (cowboy action shooting) crowd.  They are typically double barreled with short 20 inch barrels and nice looking wood finishes.  They are good little guns with barrels short enough for indoor work and you can pick up a good used example for $200.  Stoeger makes a perfectly fine one that retails for under $400 new with a lovely walnut stock.  I own a Stoeger dbl barrel 20 gauge hunting gun and while it is no Berretta it has proven to be reliable and affordable. 

You may think you need more than two shots.  I say no.  I instruct tactical handgun technique for beginners through advanced LEO breech teams.  In the real world if you wake up in the middle of the night and let go of two 12 gauge rounds indoors at a target 8-15 feet away and they take cover and return fire...your shooting at the cops or other trained professionals and you are probably dead already.   I would venture to say 100% of intruders will flee from your first barrel.  Don't brandish or communicate..... identify your target, aim and fire. 

I know the Stoeger is not the same quality as the Rem. Marine but are you gonna get it wet?  Really?  Do you really need the extra shots?  Really?  Think through your home defense scenario and consider what you need to get the job done.  I think a coach gun is great affordable fit...if you really must have a shotgun.  Which would not be my first choice.

[rgramjet]

Ive got a Stevens side by side, was my father in laws rabbit gun.  Ive also got an 870 SPS with a rifled 18" slug barrel and cantilevered scope mount.  Maybe in my OP I was thinking "tactical" but the wee shotgun that Izzzz posted leans more toward what I like.  Rear pistol grip, short barreled, minimalist thunder stick.  I would probably put a "laser" on it because I dig "lasers".

[Binary]

I personally use the 870 with the Speed Feed IV stock (pistol grip w/short shoulder stock). It will be more accurate than the just the pistol grip which you will need to aim from the hip for CQC (close quarter combat).

If you have the option, go for a pistol as well. My trusty HK USP CT 45 is always near me.

[sbrguy]

haha,  i like the zombie attack scenario, then you definitely need a tactical shotgun no doublt about it with a 20 round or more mag, afterall those zombies just keep coming, at least they do in all the movies.

[ducatiz]

+1 ducatizzz and hyphen

~~~

But let's just say you are going to get a shotgun.  I have cheaper option that will do the job for a 1/2 the cost and look nice doing it.  Get a coach gun.  These guns have been revived by the SASS (cowboy action shooting) crowd.  They are typically double barreled with short 20 inch barrels and nice looking wood finishes.  They are good little guns with barrels short enough for indoor work and you can pick up a good used example for $200.  Stoeger makes a perfectly fine one that retails for under $400 new with a lovely walnut stock.  I own a Stoeger dbl barrel 20 gauge hunting gun and while it is no Berretta it has proven to be reliable and affordable. 

I have a Stoeger 12 ga coach gun -- before they were owned by Benelli.  I love it. I would never part with it.

Intimidation?  Give me a break.  ANYTHING with a muzzle pointed at them is going to intimidate, really, that's why I think the tactical craze is just a fashion statement.

I like short barreled shotguns a lot, and if I could get one of those coach guns with a 12 or 14" barrel, I would.  Report would be awesome, not to mention the flashball out the muzzle.  That's why I got the Witness 870 (my SBS).  It is ultra portable and fits perfectly for me. 

Of course, I am one of those tin-foil hat weirdos who thinks you should have a secret mount for one in your car/truck and a case or two of shells for SHTF.

The coach gun is an excellent suggestion.  I am sure more creeps have been scared off or intimidated by a coach gun (in US history) than any othe kind of shotgun.  Plenty of dads sat on the porch with one, in "days of yore..."

[ducatiz]

Gotcha.  No thanks.  A co-worker went through the process to own full auto weapons when I worked back in Reno.  Seemed like it was a royal PIA, not to mention expensive.  He got approved though and ended up with some pretty cool weapons, an uzzi and M-16 if I remember correctly.  At the time he wasn't even a citizen...he had just had a green card for ~20 years.  His citizenship was in Norway, and he would have had to give it up to get US citizenship...which he has since done.  I just thought it was interesting they allowed an "alien" to own full auto weapons.

This was all pre 9/11 (1999) though...not sure if the process is any more difficult now. 

Green card = permanent legal resident.  Same as a citizen except for voting and a few other things, but they can buy and sell firearms just as anyone else.  They do not have a 2nd Amendment right, which is reserved for citizens (some rights reserved for only citizens, re Ex parte Quirin )

[c_rex]

Green card = permanent legal resident.  Same as a citizen except for voting and a few other things, but they can buy and sell firearms just as anyone else.  They do not have a 2nd Amendment right, which is reserved for citizens (some rights reserved for only citizens, re Ex parte Quirin )

and when they turn into zombies they'll come for you just the same as any other hungry undead. 

I'll go Devil's Advocate on the pistola as primary... I've got kids.  It is both more conceptually and physically difficult for them to accidentally utilize a shotgun.  Sliding rounds in the tube properly versus popping in a clip can be done but it's just not as easy.  A shotgun is longer, heavier and once in hand not nearly as fun as it looks on tv when compared to a pistol which can be waved in large circles over one's head while simultaneously yelling "This is a robbery!  Move and I'll kill every last one of you motha- F<bleeeeeep>ers!"   A pistol may be designed more as a man stopper but for the purpose of home defense it can be a far greater risk to those it is intended to protect. 
Additionally- those unnecessary add ons (lights/lasers) are just as useful for intimidation and non-lethal damage.  These are far less weildy on a pistol.  And though Dirty Harry was skilled at pistol whipping bad guys for fun and a salary I don't think the average Joe could conk a crook in hand-to-hand nearly as well as he/she could by charging with a long barrel or upending a shot gun and coming down 'crack-a-lacka' with a tactical entry butt stock. 
Don't get me wrong- I've got pistols too but I expect my wife to grab one and to be gathering the kids to arm them with those easy to wield weapons while I go after the criminals/zombies with a blind, bluff, blast and beat down approach.

[ducatiz]

I'll go Devil's Advocate on the pistola as primary... I've got kids.  It is both more conceptually and physically difficult for them to accidentally utilize a shotgun.  Sliding rounds in the tube properly versus popping in a clip can be done but it's just not as easy.  A shotgun is longer, heavier and once in hand not nearly as fun as it looks on tv when compared to a pistol which can be waved in large circles over one's head while simultaneously yelling "This is a robbery!  Move and I'll kill every last one of you motha- F<bleeeeeep>ers!"   A pistol may be designed more as a man stopper but for the purpose of home defense it can be a far greater risk to those it is intended to protect. 
Additionally- those unnecessary add ons (lights/lasers) are just as useful for intimidation and non-lethal damage.  These are far less weildy on a pistol.  And though Dirty Harry was skilled at pistol whipping bad guys for fun and a salary I don't think the average Joe could conk a crook in hand-to-hand nearly as well as he/she could by charging with a long barrel or upending a shot gun and coming down 'crack-a-lacka' with a tactical entry butt stock. 

I agree that a pistol isn't the best primary for home defense (compared with a shotgun).  They require more training to use accurately, and most pistol rounds will penetrate a typical wall in a home.

A shotgun like a Coach Gun is good because it is simplistic to operate and reload.  The downside is that you have to keep it chambered to remain usable (which means cocked if you have internal pins -- external hammer type can be uncocked but i don't like those).

Most "tactical" stocks are lightweight and not designed for good physical use, including the common buttpad which is medium-soft rubber.  An old fashioned wood stock is needed for "cracka lacka"

I

that's hilarious

[ducatiz]

So last night, everyone is asleep.  It's around 11 pm and I am up reading for work (in the kitchen).

I hear a BAM BAM BAM BAM on the door.  It isn't a knock, it's a demand.  I look around the corner -- our doors have glass in the top and I can see out -- no one is there. 

I keep a Mossberg "jungle gun" in the pantry.   Ammo is on the top shelf.  I chamber it quickly and go to the door, looking out.  I see a dark large Suburban (I think) sitting in the street in front of our house.  I open the door and put the muzzle out first, checking the sides of the porch and then I step out with the shotgun shouldered.  Can't see the back of the Sub as it's too dark ( no street lights )..

At this point, the Sub lays rubber and turns and speeds off.  I sighted the back of the truck and gave firing half a second of thought.  Nope.  Fleeing.  Too much distance for solid accuracy.  etc.

I think the individual was pulling a prank and shat themselves when I came out.

I called the police, they showed up 10 minutes later.  We did a walk around to make sure no vandalism or attempted break-in.

The garage light was on, but the motion light on the driveway wasn't set off.  Popo think it may have either been a prank or a weird way of someone picking up a friend.

Either way, I doubt they will be back.  I'll be looking at all the dark Suburbans nearby. 

[rgramjet]

I 

Tell me you have a picture of that set up!!

[hbliam]

so-called "tactical" shotguns are silly imho.  the main reason doughnut-loaded LEOs use them is for intimidation, not for useful functionality.
take a look at the s/gs that the USMC use.  those are REAL tactical shotguns.   simple function, indestructible, and just as lethal as anything with a flashlight,ghost ring sights,adjustable butt and so on.

Well I've shot our old shotguns and are new "tactical" shotguns with the flashlights, ghost ring sights, and pistol grips back to back. The new ones with the ghost rings were quicker and easier to put on target. This transalated to being more accurate while being rushed (which we normally are) and thus safer IMO for any innocent citizens involved. The flashlight, funny enough, is very useful when it gets dark. True that they are intimidating which is why they rarely get fired.

point is, with a shotgun, there is limited use for an LEO -- they are for room clearing, which is not useful for most situations where innocent ppl will get hurt, which is 90% of LE actions.

Actually we use MP5's or AR15's (and our sidearms) for room clearing. We primarily use the shotguns for felony car stops. SWAT also uses them to cut down doors.