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No hot start - 07' S4R

Started by TAftonomos, May 20, 2011, 01:04:59 PM

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TAftonomos

May 20, 2011, 01:04:59 PM
After I get the new battery, and new gas...bike is running great.  Cept it won't restart after it gets hot.  Occasionally it will sputter once, eerily similar to a cold bike that needs some/more choke.

Cold - thing fires right up no problem.

Hot restart - Ain't happening

Not sure where to start, new battery, gas is fresh, bike runs great when it's running.

Frustrated...I wanna ride this thing

TAftonomos

#1
May 20, 2011, 02:17:17 PM Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 02:28:36 PM by TAftonomos
Lots of screwing around so far.

What I have found isn't good.

Bad gas?  I'm thinking it was something else....Perhaps it had something to do with misfiring.



Unless I pull the head, I'll have no idea if the valves are bent, or if whatever caused this is still in there.  How this happened is beyond me.  I've been putting motors together for the last 10 years (granted, not ducs), and I'm super careful about working in and around uncovered TB's, intakes, carbs, etc.

The ONLY thing I can come up with is a piece of plastic was left/logdged in the airbox when I trimmed it, and has been sucked down into the cylinder.  It wouldn't last long, but it could easily have caused some damage.  I pulled the horizonal cylinder header off as well, and the exhaust port is wet, obviously from unburned fuel

I'm not sure what the best course of action is at this point.  Easiest would be to put a new plug in it and go.  Obviously if the FOD is still in there it could cause more damage than it already has.  I can clearly see the valves through the ports.  They do not APPEAR to be bent, but of course I cannot examine them closely with light behind them to spot a leak.

I've seen some FOD pass through a motor before squashing the plug but not touching the valves at all.....I've seen plenty more times where something like this takes out the entire head/piston too :(

If I pull the head, do I need new headgaskets to reassemble, or can I reuse them assuming they are metal?

TAftonomos

#2
May 20, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
Have been searching...ughh..

The stock plug that is supposed to be in there is NGK MAR10A-J

This is a lower profile plug with dual grounds off to the side.

The plug I pulled out obviously isn't that.  The ground has been "moved" to the point there is no gap.  I'm curious if the piston to head clearance could be close enough that a single ground plug would actually touch?  That with some high-RPM rod stretching abuse may make contact.

The plug that I pulled out isn't all mangled up, almost looks as though it was dropped.  There arn't a bunch of fresh smashed marks on it, which is what I would expect to see if there was a nut/bolt flopping around in the cylinder.....tbike ran for a minute this morning after the new battery and ran great.

I ordered 2 NGK MAR10A-J from Orielly this afternoon, should be here in the AM.  I'll measure the difference and see, but just from the images online it looks to be a much lower profile plug.


I've got my fingers crossed that everything is OK here....

Howie

#3
May 20, 2011, 03:29:05 PM
Do a compression or cylinder leakage test.  Shows good?  Install proper plugs, pray to the motorcycle gods, then start.

TAftonomos

#4
May 20, 2011, 03:29:49 PM
I need to find the proper fitting end for my compression tester, then I can do just that...

Cloner

#5
May 20, 2011, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: TAftonomos on May 20, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
Have been searching...ughh..

The stock plug that is supposed to be in there is NGK MAR10A-J
I ordered 2 NGK MAR10A-J ....

The spark plug book seems to fib a bit for some Ducatis in the Testastretta range.  I just finished a tune on an '07 Monster S4RS and the factory plugs were Champions equivalent to NGK CR9EIX (if you like iridium plugs).

Just FYI.
Never appeal to a man's "better nature."  He may not have one.  Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage.  R.A. Heinlein

'64 Ducati Monza 250
'67 Aermacchi/HD Sprint SS (race bike)
'00 Aprilia RSV Mille
'03 Ducati 800 SS (race bike)
'04 KTM 450 EXC
'08 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (race bike)

ducpainter

#6
May 20, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
Testa motors will require a new gasket if you pull the head...

and they ain't cheap.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


TAftonomos

#7
May 20, 2011, 04:29:21 PM Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 04:31:06 PM by TAftonomos
Spoke with Donne U a few mins ago.  He says the same as above...do a compression check.  If it's good run the thing.  He is doubtful that there is internal damage as it fires up like it should when cold.

It's obvious why it won't when it's been run...that plug isn't firing worth a darn and is fouled out.


My biggest fear is there is something in the chamber that will work it's way into ruining the motor.  

I think I'm gonna order one of these so I can have a look anyway.  IIRC, thats about the cost of one gasket..

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4-Video-Inspection-Camera-Pipe-Borescope-Endoscope-TV-/260784202054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7f32146

ducpainter

#8
May 20, 2011, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: TAftonomos on May 20, 2011, 04:29:21 PM
<snip>
I think I'm gonna order one of these so I can have a look anyway.  IIRC, thats about the cost of one gasket..

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4-Video-Inspection-Camera-Pipe-Borescope-Endoscope-TV-/260784202054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7f32146
'Zactly....
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


TAftonomos

#9
May 20, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
Came back from summit racing with the correct compression tester.

10 revolutions on the starter makes 140psi in the front cylinder.  It comes up even and steady with each pulse like it should


Thoughts?

ducpainter

#10
May 20, 2011, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: TAftonomos on May 20, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
Came back from summit racing with the correct compression tester.

10 revolutions on the starter makes 140psi in the front cylinder.  It comes up even and steady with each pulse like it should


Thoughts?

How much does it vary from the other cylinder?
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


64duc

#11
May 20, 2011, 06:25:28 PM
  How does that compare to the rear cylinder?
94 M900, 64 Diana 250

TAftonomos

#12
May 20, 2011, 06:30:25 PM Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 06:37:21 PM by TAftonomos
Welp, guess it's coming apart.


170psi on the V

This sucks large fat donkey balls.

HG's are 100$ each.  Now comes the hard part of just fixing the front cylinder, or pulling them both and getting them "done".

I should have the head off in an hour at most, will report back with pics.

ducpainter

#13
May 20, 2011, 06:32:20 PM
Hopefully it won't be too 'spensive.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


TAftonomos

#14
May 20, 2011, 06:50:59 PM
Crossing my fingers it's just a tweaked valve.  Think if something jammed the valve open....broken cams and all that shit !  :eek:
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