Monster 695 recently making a strange noise from engine

[Lieutenant Dan]

Have you had any luck finding a closer qualified shop or local DMF member to help you out?  IMO, experience with engines and fuel injection is a good idea. 

I've posted in the Dallas local club board soliciting help from anyone with experience, so hopefully I can find someone to help me out. I agree, fuel system and throttle body stuff is not something I'm about to delve into on my own with no experience. If nothing else there seems to be a reputable shop in Dallas, two hours away.

By the way, the mechanic who did my valves provided me with the specs and they are all good.

Speaking of the 695 service manual, where's the best place to get one of these? I definitely want one. Couldn't find one from the fine folks at  ca cycleworks.

[brad black]

To quote your report, "But both the 695 (afaik) and 800 have a linear TPS, so this setting procedure is irrelevant for them anyway."

This is a 695 here.

about half way down it says "Back to the procedure:"  from there down pretty much is the info for setting them up.

[Howie]

I've posted in the Dallas local club board soliciting help from anyone with experience, so hopefully I can find someone to help me out. I agree, fuel system and throttle body stuff is not something I'm about to delve into on my own with no experience. If nothing else there seems to be a reputable shop in Dallas, two hours away.

What about these folks?  http://www.advancedmotorsports.com  AFAIK, a good reputation.

By the way, the mechanic who did my valves provided me with the specs and they are all good.

Speaking of the 695 service manual, where's the best place to get one of these? I definitely want one. Couldn't find one from the fine folks at  ca cycleworks.

I just checked these folk, http://www.duc.nu/manuals/?model=monster&type=workshop  No cigar, but maybe in the future.  The dealer (expect to pay a lot of money.  Ah, From our board member He Man 

I've been thinking, since you had the problem before the service, bad TPS?  Do not run out and get a new one.  It can be checked for operation with a scan tool.

[Lieutenant Dan]

about half way down it says "Back to the procedure:"  from there down pretty much is the info for setting them up.

Thanks Brad! I'll get reading!

Now, can I ask a very basic and beginner question...? How does one access all these screws, ex: 6. Balance or synchronisation adjustment screw? Are there special tools for the job? Do I have to remove the throttle body all together? (I do not have the bike in front of me and haven't looked to see if I can easily access each one without removing things to get  behind stuff... but some look hard to get to)

[Lieutenant Dan]

I've been thinking, since you had the problem before the service, bad TPS?  Do not run out and get a new one.  It can be checked for operation with a scan tool.

Thanks for the good link, howie.

So what I've gathered is that to sync the throttle bodies alone does not require a scan tool. Just vacuum equipment, maybe a TwinMax or some such device. However, actually to quote you from another thread, "If you touch the throttle screw you need the scan tool to set TPS and CO balance requires an exhaust analyzer." Do you know how involved of a process setting TPS and CO balance is? I also know you suggested VDSTS software from ca-cycleworks...

[Howie]

Thanks for the good link, howie.

So what I've gathered is that to sync the throttle bodies alone does not require a scan tool. Just vacuum equipment, maybe a TwinMax or some such device. However, actually to quote you from another thread, "If you touch the throttle screw you need the scan tool to set TPS and CO balance requires an exhaust analyzer." Do you know how involved of a process setting TPS and CO balance is? I also know you suggested VDSTS software from ca-cycleworks...

Yes, that is why I sent you the link for the VDSTS.  The software will also help you check if the TPS and other sensors are operating properly.  Normally CO balance is set at the factory as is the throttle stop screw.  Turning the air bleeds in or out equally will maintain that balance.  Normally TPS only needs to be set if someone touches the throttle screw or replaces the TPS.  Until you know the TPS is good and base settings are good you are wandering in the dark.

Since my bike is carburated I do not own the VDSTS software, but I hear using it is not always easy.  So, I guess you are not near AMS Ducati?

[brad black]

linear tps - http://www.bikeboy.org/ducatitps.html

the 695 probably has the bing throttle bodies with the balance screw facing back and totally inaccessible.  you need to remove the airbox to get to it.

[stopintime]

My tech raised my S2R 800 idle by reaching in with a tool, adjusting something other than the air bleeds.
It worked and afaik didn't cause anything bad.

Any idea what he adjusted and if it shouldn't have been done that way?

(thread jack finished )

[Lieutenant Dan]

Since my bike is carburated I do not own the VDSTS software, but I hear using it is not always easy.  So, I guess you are not near AMS Ducati?

Two hours away. Not so bad. In fact I think I'll head over there this weekend. My only hesitation (initially) was how the last dealer I went to "fixed" everything, but really I am seeing now how much he actually screwed it up. However, people seem to have a lot of trust in AMS Ducati in Dallas, in addition, I don't have all the time in the world to mess with it on my own. Also no one with experience is just jumping up eager to help me in my area... They are going to service my tank under the Monster Class Action thing I got in the mail regarding expanding tanks with Ethanol fuel, so I might as well have them see what they can do about my jacked up throttle bodies causing this backfire problem...

By the way, I took a look today, and here's what I can tell you. I agree that it is most likely a Bing throttle body. I didn't go through the process of removing the airbox, and so I didn't see everything. But what I did see told me, 1. The TPS was definitely not changed (which makes sense because this bike should have a linear TPS and therefore nothing can be adjusted with its screws anyway.). 2. The bleeds were definitely changed. Sorry, but that's all I could tell from my very preliminary look.

PS, what I was asking, I suppose, is how long does it take and how much of an expert to you need to be to do those two things (setting TPS and CO balance). I'm guessing by your answer that if I were to purchase the software, full instructions would be included on what exactly I have to do. Keep in mind I am a rather shiny new beginner.

My tech raised my S2R 800 idle by reaching in with a tool, adjusting something other than the air bleeds.
It worked and afaik didn't cause anything bad.

Any idea what he adjusted and if it shouldn't have been done that way?

(thread jack finished )

stopintime, I am NO expert by any means, but what I can tell you just from reading Bike Boy's article is that it could have been the throttle stop screw if there was "reaching in" involved. This, from everything I have gathered so far, is not the proper way to adjust the idle...

[Lieutenant Dan]

Does anyone know why the Ducati maintenance manual I have fails to specify a procedure for syncing the throttle bodies?

[brad black]

if the idle stop has been adjusted then next time a tps reset is done the value will be wrong.  if the rh stop has been adjusted you can just wind it out again, which is all you can get to easily.  the lh stop is almost inaccessible without pulling it apart, believe me, i've tried to get to it.

including pulling the airbox to do the balance it would take an hour or so.  don't count on instructions, don't recall seeing any.

[Lieutenant Dan]

if the idle stop has been adjusted then next time a tps reset is done the value will be wrong.  if the rh stop has been adjusted you can just wind it out again, which is all you can get to easily.  the lh stop is almost inaccessible without pulling it apart, believe me, i've tried to get to it.

including pulling the airbox to do the balance it would take an hour or so.  don't count on instructions, don't recall seeing any.

This is what I had feared. Since today is Friday, I'm going to remove the airbox to get in there and take a look. What I am assuming is that this is a Bing throttle body and therefore no LH throttle stop screw. Unfortunately, this means it has to be balanced before I go any further (since the TPS is monitoring the LH valve â€" closed position controlled by the RH throttle stop screw by way of the balancing screw).  Are you in concurrence with all this? Thanks tremendously for your help.
 
Question 1: can balancing be done with all the other settings screwed up? It seems like it must be since having a good balance is a starting point (even before TPS reset).
 
Question 2: In the absence of instructions, what's the basic concept? Hook up the gauge to get equal and balanced suction out of both throttle bodies at idle and 4-6,000 rpm by adjusting the balance screw? Thanks again.
 

[Lieutenant Dan]

 
Question 1: can balancing be done with all the other settings screwed up? It seems like it must be since having a good balance is a starting point (even before TPS reset).
 
Question 2: In the absence of instructions, what's the basic concept? Hook up the gauge to get equal and balanced suction out of both throttle bodies at idle and 4-6,000 rpm by adjusting the balance screw? Thanks again.
 

Does anybody know the answer to this? I really need to know before I can move forward.

Also, just an update: upon inspection, the throttle body is indeed a Bing throttle body, and both the balance screw and the throttle stop screw have been adjusted in the past. Furthermore, the bike idles at nearly 1,800 rpm with both bleed screws closed all the way.

[Howie]

Yes, you can balance the bike but all you can possibly achieve is a smoother running bike that idles way to high.  CO balance with the bypass screws at high speed is pointless.  The balance screws allow air to bypass the throttle, thus the name.  As RPM goes up the percentage of air the screws allow to bypass the throttle becomes insignificant as compared to the air allowed to enter through the throttles.  Think of pissing into a glass half full of water.  Quite significant!  Now piss in a pool half full of water.  Not very significant.  Unless you get caught, but that is a different story.  I wouldn't be surprised if those screws were made difficult to access so people wouldn't make the beast with two backs with them.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yes, you can balance the bike but all you can possibly achieve is a smoother running bike that idles way to high.  CO balance with the bypass screws at high speed is pointless.  The balance screws allow air to bypass the throttle, thus the name.  As RPM goes up the percentage of air the screws allow to bypass the throttle becomes insignificant as compared to the air allowed to enter through the throttles.  Think of pissing into a glass half full of water.  Quite significant!  Now piss in a pool half full of water.  Not very significant.  Unless you get caught, but that is a different story.  I wouldn't be surprised if those screws were made difficult to access so people wouldn't make the beast with two backs with them.

But after I perform a balance, I should at least be able to get the idle down and properly reset the TPS, right?