street gangs

[king67rsss]

I've been watching "Gangland" on the History Channel and it got me thinking. Why does the government not treat these gang members as domestic terrorists? I would venture a guess that street gangs have probably claimed more innocent lives than Al Quaeda here in the US,yet our fight of terrorism focuses on enemies abroad. Wouldn't tougher penalties for affiliation or membership in a gang be more of a deterrent than locking them up AFTER a latino gang member kills a 10 year old black girl just because she is black?

[Statler]

good topic...let's keep an eye on it and see if politics board is a better fit as it gets rolling.

[Scottish]

I'm of the opinion that the Dept. of Wildlife should issue hunting licences for them, same as deer you could get a buck or a doe tag, for a certain section. Set up a blind, call them in, get your shot, then strap 'em to the hood of the station wagon. It'd be an interesting head mount to have in your living room. 

[Speeddog]

<bookmark>

[lawbreaker]

I've been watching "Gangland" on the History Channel and it got me thinking. Why does the government not treat these gang members as domestic terrorists? I would venture a guess that street gangs have probably claimed more innocent lives than Al Quaeda here in the US,yet our fight of terrorism focuses on enemies abroad. Wouldn't tougher penalties for affiliation or membership in a gang be more of a deterrent than locking them up AFTER a latino gang member kills a 10 year old black girl just because she is black?

186.22 of the California Penal Code serves as an enhancement for gang crimes....

Also check out the "STEP" Act.......


And yes its somewhat of a deterrent (steeper penalties) . But then again gangmembers are becoming more savy and not admitting membership, not getting tattoos and other usual gangsret crap in an effort to avoid detection by Law Enforcement. and posibly evade said steeper penalties

[dropstharockalot]

Wikipedia isn't good for much, but their entry on terrorism does help highlight why this discussion keeps happening - the word itself is very emotionally charged, leading people to cling tightly to their personal definitions.  Wikipedia terrorism link.

As I understand the origins of the American street gang, they were typically focused on protection of members in the face of aggressors.  Simple strength in numbers grew into para-military organizational structures devoted to criminal enterprises, with modern gangs focused on using illegal means for private financial gain of the membership.

Terror in the terrorism sense has a political element - the motivation is a cause or social pursuit, not just the accumulation of wealth.  That's the difference - ideology.  Gangs lack the central "change the world / change the politics" ideological motivation that is definitive of terrorism.

[Pakhan]

I've been watching "Gangland" on the History Channel and it got me thinking. Why does the government not treat these gang members as domestic terrorists? I would venture a guess that street gangs have probably claimed more innocent lives than Al Quaeda here in the US,yet our fight of terrorism focuses on enemies abroad. Wouldn't tougher penalties for affiliation or membership in a gang be more of a deterrent than locking them up AFTER a latino gang member kills a 10 year old black girl just because she is black?

Do gangs threaten our society because they don't like our beliefs or because our beliefs get in the way of their business.  I wouldn't say they do things to create change or out of disdain for society's beliefs, so I wouldn't classify them as terrorists.

Doesn't mean I don't think gangs are a big threat.

[Scottish]

Do gangs threaten our society because they don't like our beliefs or because our beliefs get in the way of their business.  I wouldn't say they do things to create change or out of disdain for society's beliefs, so I wouldn't classify them as terrorists.

Doesn't mean I don't think gangs are a big threat.

No perhaps that isn't their motivation. However I do think they use terror as a weapon and that qualifies them, no? Why is it that the average person say's "don't go into that neighboorhood after dark"? Because they are scared, and they are scared largely of gangs, criminal groups who run around breaking the law and intimidating people. I've lived in those neighborhoods, I know these thugs and their mentality. They forsook any meaningful form of humanity long ago, they are only interested in being the most feared thug on the block. That's what the term "street cred" is referrencing, the abilitly to get things done out of fear because others know you'll do harm if your desires aren't met. These idiots only recognize strength, do you have more or less? Are you Alpha to them, or they to you? You cannot reason with the unreasonable, I vote we set them to an island and let them have at each other away from the public.

[il d00d]

In broad terms, street gangs and what we are commonly defining as terrorist could fall under the same definition of an organized group seeking to do harm against another group or government.  There are some significant differences, though - the Axis of Evil terrorists are motivated by a blend of political and religious beliefs, but street gangs just seem to be sociopaths.
I could see waging a war on terrorists both domestic and foreign, but only if that was more effective than doing what we are doing now.  I don't think that calling gang members terrorists would get them off the street faster - plus, there are already laws that deal with hate crime, and gang-related activities. To overlay "terrorist" over gang member helps to put things in some ideological perspective, but I am afraid that the more we use that word the less effective it is.  I think we should reserve "terrorists" for groups enriching uranium and the like. 

[Pakhan]

they use terror as a weapon and that qualifies them, no?

Many use terror to some degree.  Stealth bombers, beware of dog, owner has gun, etc.  In the most basic of definitions of terrorism I suppose they could qualify.

Why is it that the average person say's "don't go into that neighboorhood after dark"? Because they are scared, and they are scared largely of gangs, criminal groups who run around breaking the law and intimidating people.

Terrorism is suppose to make you fear living the way you do anywhere, not going to specific neighborhoods.

"street cred" is referrencing, the abilitly to get things done out of fear because others know you'll do harm if your desires aren't met.

I thought it was what made it easier to get credit cards, home and personal loans in the ghetto   

[king67rsss]

Terrorism is suppose to make you fear living the way you do anywhere, not going to specific neighborhoods.

I see your point on making broad blanket classifications as "terrorists".But when you have normal everyday folks assaulted because of some gangs stupid initiation rituals I think more needs to be done. Apparently most of what happens out here with the latino gangs is directed by the mexican mafia. How a predominantly prison gang can be allowed to "shot call", collect taxes and generally flourish is beyond me.

[Speedbag]

You cannot reason with the unreasonable, I vote we set them to an island and let them have at each other away from the public.

And don't forget to nuke said island once they're all in place.

I've been watching the 'Gangland' series also, and have felt that the gangs are largely terroristic (as of today, not so much when most were formed since they were more interested in keeping their neighborhoods safe) but in a slightly different sense.   

[trenner]

This series is excellent.  I watched the one on the Mongols (motorcycle gang), and was fascinated.

Interesting story: after watching that episode on the Mongols, I showed up for a jury duty summons.  They had over 80 potential jurors, for one criminal trial.  We spent the day sitting in the courtroom as the prosecution and defense grilled all of the potential jurors about their opinions with respect to motorcycles, tattoos, and motorcycle "clubs" (defense wording) or "gangs" (prosecution wording), and whether they or any of their friends or family owned motorcycles, or had heard of the Mongols.

The defendant was the president of Oregon's Mongols, accused of kidnapping, assault, and conspiracy charges.  I can only assume that the charges stemmed from this event:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1209093921218080.xml&coll=7

At any rate, they never got to me in the selection process (I was number 65 or so, of 80).  But it would have been a really interesting trial.

[derby]

This series is excellent.

it's very good, but they're a little off on some of their explanations for terms. also, some of the episodes suffer from "lack of content" and feel like they're stretching to fill an hour of tv.

[trenner]

they're a little off on some of their explanations for terms

Haven't run into that yet.  But then, I've only watched a couple episodes, from which to make my...uh...sweeping generalization.  Heh.