Decelleration / downshifting / turning for street riding. Sequence for smooth?

[hillbillypolack]

I'm practicing smoother corners, and the sequence of downshift / brake / blip throttle / flick / roll on power.  I understand the practical nature of what needs to be done and where in the turn.  But can someone lend some advice to how your fingers are configured on the bars and grips while all this is being done.

In "practice", I'm probably looking like a 10 year old nursing the bike through a corner, but I'm also trying to unlearn some old habits (letting out the clutch and allowing for too much engine braking for example).  Brakes, I hear, are cheaper to replace than engine internals, and are better for stopping a bike.

I've adjusted the clutch lever to allow me to use two finger control.  Same with the front brake.  Entering a turn, I allow for some engine braking, transition to braking while downshifting, blipping throttle to match the revs to each gear.  Before leaning in, I usually have the gear selected to allow throttle and settle the bike in mid corner (braking finished at this point).  Exiting is the easy part.  For me, I seem to get a bit scrambled if I rush through the entry sequence.

Anyone have any tips, analogies?  Thanks in advance. 

[Ducatista]

You're going to have to do everything at once anyway, so there's no easy way to put it.   

Whatever you do, start your exit from your entrance.  By the time you've turned in, you should be in the correct gear, have scrubbed off enough speed, be on the throttle, and only be trail braking at that point.  Don't worry about making everything later and later.  Just get smoother and smoother.  Save the late bit for the track when you're trying to beat that blasted I-4 600 on the brakes because he passed you on the straight for the fifth lap in a row.  As you get more comfortable, the actions will fall into sequence more smoothly.  I have a feeling that right now it's just a matter of saddle time for you. 

Something that might help is flipping to GP shift.  It's a free mod and should only take about 5 mins to do.  You can even do it without putting it up on a rearstand.  All you have to do is flip the spline that is connected to the spindle on the tranny so it is going up instead of down (don't quote me on part names).  Adjust the shift rod length, and voila.  I know that it has helped me make my corners smoother, since it is just more ergonomically sound to do it like that. 

Something that will keep you from parking in corners is to look as far ahead in the turn as you can physically see, and make sure your head is pointed there, too.  Your perception of speed is inversely proportional to your distance of focus.  If you focus on something really close, you'll feel like you're going fast.  It will make you be more ginger on the throttle and aggressive on the brake.  Looking ahead will also keep you from having multiple turn in points, also called fifty-pencing. 

Keep your arms floppy loose.  It will make all your inputs smoother and keep you from unsettling your front.  Keep your grip relaxed.  You should have just about zero grip on the dead handle and you should be able to control the throttle with your thumb and index finger, in theory. 

Relax. 

[Speeddog]

Precious little to add after those two posts. 

Find a deserted road and practice the braking/downshifting.
It will remove the 'workload' of trying to judge the corner entry, so you can better concentrate on the coordination of the throttle/brake/shifter.
And if you blow it, you won't go off into a ditch, or worse.

Or even clip it to just the downshifting, so you can get smooth with the clutch and throttle.

After you've got that sorted, you can add the front brake.

Then, you can add the rear brake to the mix.
If you're on the rear brake, pay particular attention to any 'pattering' sensation from the rear suspension.
That can *easily* develop into full-blown wheel hop if you don't back off the brake a tiny bit.

Just make sure to check your mirrors before slowing down, in case the road isn't as deserted as you thought.

When entering a corner hard, I'll use index and middle fingers on the brake, thumb, ring and pinkie on the throttle.
Index, middle, and ring fingers on the clutch.

I guess I added more than a little. 

[Ducatista]

Get off the computer and go ride, right now.

  Too true!

[Grio]

As you approach the turn think:
Body...Brake...Gear...

Get youself into positions for the turn (should be a minimal adjustment on the street). 
Do all your braking, front rear what have you...
Blip throttle and get into your chosen gear.

It's helped me at the track.  Have fun!

[ScottRNelson]

With a Ducati, there are often three different gears that will work for a given corner.

I would recommend leaving it in a higher gear so that you take the downshifting and clutch action out of the equation, then just worry about entry speed and line through the corner.  Get all of your braking done before you start to turn and concentrate on a smooth line through the corner and gentle application of throttle as you exit the turn.

Get that part perfect so that you can do it right 40 or 50 times in a row, then add the downshifting part.  Fewer things to worry about at once, and shifting will become almost trivial once you have the rest nailed.

[cmorgan47]

Something that might help is flipping to GP shift.

should you do this.... don't let any one else ride your bike.... ever..... trust me

kidding, all good advice
especially smoother first...
in all things, smoother first

[phlipmode]

 

Something that might help is flipping to GP shift.  It's a free mod and should only take about 5 mins to do.  You can even do it without putting it up on a rearstand.  All you have to do is flip the spline that is connected to the spindle on the tranny so it is going up instead of down (don't quote me on part names). 

I've been wanting to do this to mine.  Is there way you can post up a pic of the shifter after the mod?  Thanks in advance.

[Ducatista]

I've been wanting to do this to mine.  Is there way you can post up a pic of the shifter after the mod?  Thanks in advance.

The shift rod is the horizontal rod in this pic.  The spline is the part that connects to the shift rod on the left side of the pic.  As you can see, with the larger Evoluzione clutch slave cylinder, I can't just flip it upside down.  It's cocked slightly back, but it doesn't really affect the functionality.  I guess I should just post this in the how to section.    So all you do is loosen the pinch bolt at the top of the spline.  Slip the top of the spline off the spindle from the tranny.  Leave the shift rod connected.  Rotate the spline so it's going down to the spindle, instead of up and slip it back over the tranny spindle.  Adjust the shift rod length so the shift lever is in the right place for you.  Poof!  (Don't quote me on part names.  It just all makes sense to me!)

[phlipmode]

Ahhh. Thanks!   Sorry for the thread jack.

[Ddan]

The shift rod is the horizontal rod in this pic.  The spline is the part that connects to the shift rod on the left side of the pic.  As you can see, with the larger Evoluzione clutch slave cylinder, I can't just flip it upside down.  It's cocked slightly back, but it doesn't really affect the functionality.  I guess I should just post this in the how to section.    So all you do is loosen the pinch bolt at the top of the spline.  Slip the top of the spline off the spindle from the tranny.  Leave the shift rod connected.  Rotate the spline so it's going down to the spindle, instead of up and slip it back over the tranny spindle.  Adjust the shift rod length so the shift lever is in the right place for you.  Poof!  (Don't quote me on part names.  It just all makes sense to me!)

I'm confused.  The pic is the stock configuration, to reverse the shift pattern you turn the arm on the shifter shaft up.  Some bikes do have clearance issues with the slave cylinder.  On my Monster there was no problem, it wouldn't work on the SS.

[Ducatista]

I'm confused.  The pic is the stock configuration.

You're not confused, you're right.  I should have mentioned it.  I was just including the pic as a point of reference so people could know the parts I was talking about.

[hypurone]

Way back in the day, I spent 3 sessions of a track day practicing a Keith Code drill: NO BRAKES! I could only downshift. Now that will make you get it right...

Seriously, it is a great practice method and obviously requires restraint in ones' approach to a corner. Once you've mastered that, you can add the braking procedure but you will find that once you are good enough to properly & consistently match RPM, you will hardly need the brakes. Usually just a brief and gentle application and you are already transitioning to throttle. This was so evident when I got the S4RS with all it engine braking. I only use the brakes on roads I don't know or if I'm in  apsirited mood.  OR, when the occasional moron enters my path etc etc.

[johno]

You're going to have to do everything at once anyway, so there's no easy way to put it.   

Whatever you do, start your exit from your entrance.  

incredibly helpful, thank you!