M796, Serious issues after Re-Flash.

[2-Skinny]

I apologize for any confusion, I didn't realize that there were 2 companies so closely named, and until this point also didn't realize I was misspelling one. I am dealing with mota-lab, and yes Anthony creek is the one I have been in contacts with. I had ordered the reflash through pro-italia.

As to people speculating stuck injectors, and things of that nature..I appreciate the ideas , but please remember the situation. Bike has ~1500 miles on it, runs great. Pull the ecu, gets flashed, now has fuel dumping out of the exhaust on what appears to be both cylinders . So I believe the chances of both injectors being stuck open all of a sudden, at coincidentally the same time the ecu was reflashed, is about zero.

Probably right, but statistically speaking an electrical component is more likely to have a catastophic, premature failure when new.  Things "wearing out" or whatever over time is another issue, but injectors would work less efficiently/optimally not just stick wide open then...

[ChrisH]

Took my bike to the local  Ducati master tech today and he reset the fuel parameters and analyzed the bike on the dda, apparently they have some new fancy unit that very few people have yet that he was raving aout. After he reset the fuel parameters the bike ran dramatically better, he had me ride at low throttle / low speed for about 45 minutes and then he hooked it up again and he said all was well.

I'm getting intermittent CEL that will go away within about 30 seconds of coming on, I suspect that this has something to do with the o2 sensors being removed in the flash. The bike runs ok. I haven't put in the MWR air filter yet which the flash was designed for in theory. The bike pops a lot but it sounds like rich popping as opposed to the lean popping from the stock ecu. The surging is gone,but it does not seem to like holding low throttle low speed low rpm positions, example- 25mph in 2nd gear is impossible.

I'll put some more miles and the air filter in and see what happens. I will say that next time, I'm just going to buy the termi kit and be done with it. This was a major pita.

[Raux]

Took my bike to the local  Ducati master tech today and he reset the fuel parameters and analyzed the bike on the dda, apparently they have some new fancy unit that very few people have yet that he was raving aout. After he reset the fuel parameters the bike ran dramatically better, he had me ride at low throttle / low speed for about 45 minutes and then he hooked it up again and he said all was well.

I'm getting intermittent CEL that will go away within about 30 seconds of coming on, I suspect that this has something to do with the o2 sensors being removed in the flash. The bike runs ok. I haven't put in the MWR air filter yet which the flash was designed for in theory. The bike pops a lot but it sounds like rich popping as opposed to the lean popping from the stock ecu. The surging is gone,but it does not seem to like holding low throttle low speed low rpm positions, example- 25mph in 2nd gear is impossible.

I'll put some more miles and the air filter in and see what happens. I will say that next time, I'm just going to buy the termi kit and be done with it. This was a major pita.

probably running rich cause you are starving it for air by running a stock filter?

[2-Skinny]

Took my bike to the local  Ducati master tech today and he reset the fuel parameters and analyzed the bike on the dda, apparently they have some new fancy unit that very few people have yet that he was raving aout. After he reset the fuel parameters the bike ran dramatically better, he had me ride at low throttle / low speed for about 45 minutes and then he hooked it up again and he said all was well.

I'm getting intermittent CEL that will go away within about 30 seconds of coming on, I suspect that this has something to do with the o2 sensors being removed in the flash. The bike runs ok. I haven't put in the MWR air filter yet which the flash was designed for in theory. The bike pops a lot but it sounds like rich popping as opposed to the lean popping from the stock ecu. The surging is gone,but it does not seem to like holding low throttle low speed low rpm positions, example- 25mph in 2nd gear is impossible.

I'll put some more miles and the air filter in and see what happens. I will say that next time, I'm just going to buy the termi kit and be done with it. This was a major pita.

Are you certain that eliminating the O2 sensors w/o additional fuel control (PCV) is what is causing the issues...?

[Langanobob]

I apologize for any confusion, I didn't realize that there were 2 companies so closely named, and until this point also didn't realize I was misspelling one. I am dealing with mota-lab, and yes Anthony creek is the one I have been in contacts with. I had ordered the reflash through pro-italia.

As to people speculating stuck injectors, and things of that nature..I appreciate the ideas , but please remember the situation. Bike has ~1500 miles on it, runs great. Pull the ecu, gets flashed, now has fuel dumping out of the exhaust on what appears to be both cylinders . So I believe the chances of both injectors being stuck open all of a sudden, at coincidentally the same time the ecu was reflashed, is about zero.

I agree that the probability of both injectors suddenly sticking open on their own is slight.  It "sounds" like both injectors are being held open by the ECU but then from what little I know about the inner ECU workings this doesn't sound very likely or even possible either.   This is very interesting and if it were my bike "interesting" is not the right term at all.

Are you close enough to Glendale or Pasadena or wherever Pro-Italia is to bring your bike to them?  Since you bought the reflash through them and they presumably profited on the deal it seems to me that they are your main contact and responsible party.   Pro-Italia should have a spare ECU or otherwise be able to troubleshoot the problem.  But if they're just going to punt and leave it to Mota-labs then you're probably better off dealing directly with Mota-labs yourself to avoid miscommunications.

Again, good luck.

[ChrisH]

probably running rich cause you are starving it for air by running a stock filter?

I think that is probably the case. As soon as it cools down a bit tonight I'll put the new filter in.

Are you certain that eliminating the O2 sensors w/o additional fuel control (PCV) is what is causing the issues...?

I'm not sure I follow?

The map was supposed to be richened up to compensate for no o2's down low. I chatted with them quite a bit before going this route. Removing the o2 sensors from the flash seemed very normal for them, and it will allow me to use an auto tune setup later  when I start doing more mods. The cel I am getting has to be from the o2 circuit somewhere because the bike runs ok and it oes away pretty fast, and the master tech said that the o2 circuit while not throwing cels when he looked at it, the dda setup did flag the o2 circuits as being dropped out.

[Rxmfn7]

Pro-Italia is in CA, I live in PA, so taking it to them is not an option I have contacted them, twice now via email, and have yet to have a response. I will be calling Monday 1st thing. I have been in direct contact with Mota-lab.

I agree that the probability of both injectors suddenly sticking open on their own is slight.  It "sounds" like both injectors are being held open by the ECU but then from what little I know about the inner ECU workings this doesn't sound very likely or even possible either.   This is very interesting and if it were my bike "interesting" is not the right term at all.

Are you close enough to Glendale or Pasadena or wherever Pro-Italia is to bring your bike to them?  Since you bought the reflash through them and they presumably profited on the deal it seems to me that they are your main contact and responsible party.   Pro-Italia should have a spare ECU or otherwise be able to troubleshoot the problem.  But if they're just going to punt and leave it to Mota-labs then you're probably better off dealing directly with Mota-labs yourself to avoid miscommunications.

Again, good luck.

[2-Skinny]

I think that is probably the case. As soon as it cools down a bit tonight I'll put the new filter in.

I'm not sure I follow?

The map was supposed to be richened up to compensate for no o2's down low. I chatted with them quite a bit before going this route. Removing the o2 sensors from the flash seemed very normal for them, and it will allow me to use an auto tune setup later  when I start doing more mods. The cel I am getting has to be from the o2 circuit somewhere because the bike runs ok and it oes away pretty fast, and the master tech said that the o2 circuit while not throwing cels when he looked at it, the dda setup did flag the o2 circuits as being dropped out.

Well I don't know why the CEL would be throwing a λ code if it is eliminated completeley- it should be in open loop always with the O2s eliminated...  If they flashed it with a richened mixture then the effects you are experiencing are from the bike being too rich because of the lack of additional air flow + the fact that the mixture is not being adjusted throughout the power band- especially in the troublesome < 3500 rpm range you are describing...  Adding the filter could smooth that out- just think you won't be completely satisfied without additional fuel management...

[freeclimbmtb]

If nothing else, you have put my internal dilhema to rest.  I will be going with the termi slipon w/ecu kit instead of another exhaust and reflash.  So I cant tell you exactly when, but I may soon have a stock ecu available for troubleshooting.

[2-Skinny]

If nothing else, you have put my internal dilhema to rest.  I will be going with the termi slipon w/ecu kit instead of another exhaust and reflash.  So I cant tell you exactly when, but I may soon have a stock ecu available for troubleshooting.

You know that w/o additional air flow ECU changes aren't required right? Slip ons by themselves will be ok for the bike... That Termi+ecu kit is $$$...

[freeclimbmtb]

You know that w/o additional air flow ECU changes aren't required right? Slip ons by themselves will be ok for the bike... That Termi+ecu kit is $$$...

Option 1)  $1500 for the termi kit

Option 2)  $9xx for boomtubes, $4xx for power commander (or reflash), $60 for air filter

So with esentially the same price, I would just assume get parts signed by the factory.


EDIT:sorry for an apparent threadjack. not intentional...

[desmoworks]

This customer contacted us right away after install and we've been working with him since shortly after that. We've used that exact map 11 times without issue. I'm assuming something went wrong with the flash process, but nothing was out of the ordinary during the flash process and I haven't received the ECU back so it is all speculation at this point (by all of us... lots in this thread for some reason).

To clear up some of the confusion I'm reading in this thread:

desmoworks LLC owns mota-lab and I own desmoworks LLC. I work with Daniele Moto/Rexxer directly. This is one of their maps and they are helping resolve the issue as quickly as possible. They also said they have never had an issue with this map and they are quite concerned with the situation after seeing the video.

There have been a couple of other issues with Siemens ECU, but besides the early 696 map issues it has been customer install/setup all but one other time... which was a different map and was easily resolved. The problem is usually not resetting the TPS correctly. Once done the bikes run properly.

If anyone has one of the 696 maps that have issues with the CEL just send it back... I'm happy to flash the updated mapping that cures this issue free of charge.

Anthony Creek

[desmoworks]

Apparently not by mota-lab yet though  .

Not good enough. 

I invite mota-lab, Desmoworks, Pro Italia and/or Anthony Creek to contradict me.

Have you got some bone to pick or something?

[ungeheuer]

We've used that exact map 11 times without issue.

For Mseven96?

Have you got some bone to pick or something?

No bone at all .  I've spent plenty of money @ Desmoworks over the years and always received first rate products and customer support.

But given that Rexxer resolved the O2 CEL issues way back in January, I'm just wondering why mota-lab would seem to be flashing Siemens ECUs (ChrisH) with mapping which still doesnt have this known "lambda slow response" error dealt with? And that if this is the case... then IMO.... that's not good enough.

If anyone has one of the 696 maps that have issues with the CEL just send it back... I'm happy to flash the updated mapping that cures this issue free of charge.

The issue wasn't limited to M696, but acknowledging the problem and taking steps to resolve it is all that can be reasonably expected.  Thanks for clearing up some of the issues raised  .

[Rxmfn7]

Just to clear some things up, I contacted pro-italia about my issue being they are the ones that I placed the order through. This is who I was referring to when i said that I had contacted twice with no response. I then decided to contact motalab directly (Anthony creek), to which he has always responded to my emails nearly immediately. I have no issues with the customer service from motalab, especially being that I did not place the order directly through them.