If there was no rules, how could you make a bike that was faster than todays GP?

[mitt]

I was thinking about the WSBK VS GP lap time conversation, and being an enginerd was wondering how close are we to the asymptote of 2 wheel racing? 

If there were no design rules, what could be done to go faster around the entire circuit - not just straight line of course.  The machine would also need to finish a race on tires and fuel as well.





mitt

[zooom]

well...there have to be some rules...like, are there spec tires? spec'd fuel capacity?, spec'd fuel?

[Triple J]

I gotta think they're getting pretty close with the lean angles being achieved on the 800s. Stoner is damn near dragging his shoulder!    It would depend on the track, but more horsepower would help for the longer straights, but corner speed and braking is still the limiting factor.

I'd just put NOS on an 800 the new 1000s for the straights.  

[derby]

I gotta think they're getting pretty close with the lean angles being achieved on the 800s. Stoner is damn near dragging his shoulder!    It would depend on the track, but more horsepower would help for the longer straights, but corner speed and braking is still the limiting factor.

the big limiting factor is traction...

even so, current traction is already at the "i can't believe i can do this on two wheels" point.

[ducatiz]

Are this hypothetical mods?

I would consider some sort of surface-intelligent, gyroscopically controlled traction system.  It doesn't just know speed, it knows lean angle, g forces, tire wear (sensors) and surface condition (sensors)

Traction really is the limiting variable.  Current systems are reactive.  If one could have predictive and reactive, ...we ll..


but then one might as well have robot riders then.

Honestly, the top speeds don't impress me as MUCH as the course mastery.   yes, speed is part of that, but the difference in 150 and 175 mph is negligible to the viewer. 

[ManaloEA]

Longer wheelbase, putting more engine / frame / components between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.

[mitt]

well...there have to be some rules...like, are there spec tires? spec'd fuel capacity?, spec'd fuel?

Not really rules - just needs to finish ~25 laps.

This is all hypothetical, and blue sky ideas are encouraged!

I agree that traction is the limit now, and that is a strange statement considering the riders are already defying physics it seems.  

Predictive suspension maybe partnered with GPS technology could cut out a few 10ths I imagine, good idea tiz.

HP doesn't seem to get you much anymore.  I am not sure the 1000's will be any faster than the 800s.  There is an optimum response curve for most things, and I wonder how close were are to it with weight, power, tires, etc.

mitt

[mitt]

Longer wheelbase, putting more engine / frame / components between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.

There is nothing preventing teams from this today, so are they at their optimum?  The longer the bike, the slower it turns in, so there is of course a balance.


mitt

[Spidey]

Can we put big ole adjustable wings on the bikes?

[Goat_Herder]

There is nothing preventing teams from this today, so are they at their optimum?  The longer the bike, the slower it turns in, so there is of course a balance.


mitt

I think a lot of the basic demonsions and underlying architecture of the modern race bikes has evolved to what they are today to achieve the best results.  I don't we can tweak it any further to make it faster.  It would take further advancement in rubber, internal combustion engine (or another form of power source), and/or aerodynamics to gain another fractions of a second.  Then again, I ain't no engineer or mechanics. 

[mitt]

Can we put big ole adjustable wings on the bikes?

[avizpls]

Can we put big ole adjustable wings on the bikes?

yes. See: Desperate attempt at front grip.

[Speeddog]

MotoGP bikes already have GPS-based adaptive traction control.

Current power is rules limited by max fuel capacity.
So a couple more liters and a 1000cc or so engine would likely get power up to wheelie/wheelspin limits at all times.

Active suspension, coupled with the above TC so it knows where it is on the track.

Aerodynamics of MotoGP bikes are pretty well limited by the rules.
So, dustbin fairing and long tail would help some.

Winglets on the Ducati are purportedly to assist radiator airflow.
Effectiveness is dubious, as the factory Ducs don't have them any more.

Wings on motorcycles are very tough; unless they pivot to remain horizontal, it just makes the bike act heavier in the turns.

Maybe 3 - 4 seconds lower laptimes if unrestricted rules ......

[Spidey]

Winglets on the Ducati are purportedly to assist radiator airflow.

Yeah, what he said.

[Triple J]

the big limiting factor is traction...

Well, yeah...that's what I meant by cornerspeed since it's governed by traction.