Timing: Update

[uclabiker06]

oh boy, just did the valves.  I checked all my work before putting covers back on so no loose keepers or anything like that.  When I fired her up she stalled so I put the choke on and let her warm up and everything seemed to be well so I hopped on and proceeded to go for a ride.  

As soon as I go to pull out of the drive way the thing sputters.  Gave it more throttle but the rpms would kind of not get faster and the bike would jerk back and forth (specially when I would fully release the clutch out all the way) and then the engine would die. So with the clutch kind of held in and not fully released I gave it gas managed to sputter my way back to the garage.  I couldn't even get it to go faster than 5mph.  

I'm pretty sure its firing from both cylinders, running on both cyninders.  However I might have not alligned all the three camshafts up correctly; meaning I was off by a tooth or two on on of them.  I don't know maybe the belts were loose and slipped while I was using the engine turning tool.  I know at horizontal tdc the crank cam shaft pully is supposed to line up with the mark on the crank case and the vertical pully is supposed to line up with the corresponding mark but I don't know where the horizontal pully is supposed to line up.  I just HOPE that this is my problem        Would be greatful for ANY advice/ideas at this point.  

[He Man]

chances are you just missed it by a tooth. On the DS1000, it wont do any damage. thats why its important to mark the belts and their location on the cam and then trace the markings onto the new belt so you cant mess it up.

by mark i mean litterally use a marker and make your own mark instead of relying on the case markings.



not sure what motor you are working on 800? someone else will chime in if it can cause damage or not.

[uclabiker06]

He Man! thanks....yes, yes.  I will have to do that next time.  I just talked to my neighbor who is pretty smart about these things and he was saying the same thing.  I immediatley listened for any banging noises when I turned it on and I didn't hear any so I guess I didn't mess anything up.  

Its an S2R.... I just don't know exactly where they line up.  I suspect that its the horizontal cam.  I mean it can't be the crank cam, right?   My manual sucks and doesn't say.   Oh boy.

[Punx Clever]

s2r 800 or s2r 1000?  I have a shop manual I can link you for the 800...

[uclabiker06]

s2r800, i have a work manual on my cpu....but its not the best.  The only thing I see in it in regards to the marks is that the "intake" (I assume that means horizontal cylinder) is supposed to be "opening 19degrees at B.T.D.C & closing 60degrees A.B.D.C".  Then it says for the "exuast" (I guess that means vertical cylinder) is supposed to be "opening 56degrees B.B.D.C & closing 24degrees A.T.D.C"...  A bit hierogliphic but thats all I found in the manual in terms of where the marks on the timing should be.  

Actually the manual also shows that the mark on the middle cam (the one with two pullies) is supposed to line up with the mark on the casing, but doesn't specify about the vertical/horizontal cam pullies.  

I lost my L.T Snyder manual so I was doing valves mostly by memory.

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

Wont this video work for the S2R?

[uclabiker06]

2 wheel wanderer, that is a GREAT question....to which I don't know the answer

[hackers2r]

If I'm not mistaken, with the crank pulley mark aligned with the mark on the case, both vertical and horizontal cam pulleys should be aligned with their respective marks when you install the belts.  And yes, the video that 2 wheel wanderer will work for you. 

[EEL]

You guys are making this too hard on yourselves. Take a deep breath and remember this is 1960's technology.

I'm doing this from memory so I'm guesstimating on the "o'clocks"..

Now that I know its an S2R 800 I can help.

1) 1st step is to get TDC on the horizontal cylinder. This means tick in the sight glass and the crank pulley on the timing belt side matches with the notch in the engine cover. (about 6 o'clock if you're looking at the timing belt side)

2) If you look at the cam gear pulleys themselves, theres a notch in them. Find these notches on both pulleys. They almost look like little "U" shaped chunks are missing from the cam gear pulley.

3) If you look at the back side of the timing belt cover theres a flathead stubby screw in the belt cover housing (1 o'clock above the horizontal cam gear and 9 o'clock above the vertical gear) take both out.

4) Either take a philips head screwdriver and jam it thru and align it with the notch in the timing gear. Ideally, I have two long screws that I got from the hardware store that I screw in place of the stubby flat ones you removed. If your screw is long enough, it will lock in into the "U" slot in the cam gear.

5) Once the gears are locked in place and you're at TDC on the front cylinder, put on your belts and tension. You can put on the belts without removing the screws, they wont get in the way.

When your done tensioning, take the screws out and viola! Timing done.

[uclabiker06]

  Well I followed the video, lined up the crankcase cam with the mark on the crank case (EEL on my bike this is more like 7 or 8 o'clock not 6).  Then I checked the vertical cam which looked like it was lining up with the plastic dot.  

Then I turned on the bike and heard some bad sounds!  so i hit the kill switch.  

just checked it all out again and all the marks on all the cams line up correctly at horizontal TDC (just like in the video) but I still feel some resistence with the engine turning tool when I get to vertical TDC (not the TDC that is used for valve check at the end of the compression stroke but the one where you don't feel the air coming out of the spark plug holes)  I would spin the engine tool twice and on the third revelution of the tool it feels stuck, but if i push I can get it past that point where its hard/a bit "stuck".  

[He Man]

you can also have badly adjusted valves.

on the 1000DS, the vertical cylinder doesnt exactly line up with the dot at TDC. its kinda off. thats why i mark mine because it can be confusing sometimes uinless you know its a little before or little after.

[uclabiker06]

I don't know anymore...but I know a guy who has the same bike as me so hopefully he can come through and let me see how his belts line up at TDC.  I'm pretty sure my valves are correct.  I double checked everything before buttoning back up.  

Actually thats why I took the darn things off in the first place (to check the closers).  Just hope i didn't bend any valves or anything.  I guess I'll find out the next time i check the valves.  Thanks to all for the input

[EEL]

Binding on the spin means you have a closer too tight. That might explain your bike running crappy. Sounds like your vertical cylinder closer if tight.

[evoasis]

Plus one on the shimming... Definitely sounds like you mis-measured..  Make sure you can move the rocker a lil bit at TDC when you measure so you know you're in the right spot.. Idk how to explain it, but if the rocker wont wiggle you ain't in the right spot..

[uclabiker06]

Well when I did the valves I took the belts off and spun the vertical/horizontal cams without any interference so I don't think its the closers.  I feel like I get a some sort of binding when spinning the engine tool and i think its b/c i'm off on the timing.