new rider/ducati owner, thinking of termi upgrade

[mrpetebojangles]

hey all,

owned the bike for a month now. i am thinking of doing an upgrade to the exhaust. i love the way the termis sound but didn't realize the kit is as expensive as it is :/ anyways, is the performance upgrade really worth it. I'm more concerned with the sound upgrade, but overall is it worth it, or should i be looking at something else? the other reason for me doing this, is i hear the stock pipes can get really really hot? i plan as my riding skill increases to start riding 2 up with my gf. i wouldn't want her legs to burn. she'll be wearing boots so i hope that with those on she should be alright. the bike being fairly small, is it decent in terms of comfort with 2?

I'm just about at my first 600 service for the bike. any idea how much this costs typically at my local dealership on average? i plan on having them install the 14t as well as i hear that is a must do upgrade and helps at lower speeds. I've noticed the bike can be very sluggish and want to stall on occasion at lower speeds when i first take her out. I'm hoping this helps with 1st and 2nd gear performance.

anyways, any input on the terms would be appreciated. i really like the look of the CF ones.

[Raux]

well just a few questions

1- exhaust upgrade: Termi is a complete package, exhausts, air filter and ecu. you can do the same with any exhaust system but adding a freeflow air filter and an ecu upgrade (Rexxer is one way). Yes you will get more performance, but is it worth it, depends on your cash flow and riding style.

2- exhaust heat: yes the stock is hot due to catalytic converters and lots of backpressure. any freeflow exhaust will reduce that, carbon fiber even further. but the stock isn't so hot that it will burn the gf IF she is wearing the proper gear. at least heavy jeans, MC Boots, and MC gloves. the stock takes a longer to cool as well so getting to the key for the seat can be a pregnant dog right after a ride if you forget and take off your gloves first.

3- 2up size: I'm assuming you are talking a new monster, but yes it is smaller in the seat area. the wife has ridden on the back all the way to Italy and back from western germany. her complaints were- nothing behind her to know where the back of the seat was (lack of secure feeling), no luggage (she had to wear a backback... bad idea), nothing to hold onto that felt comfortable the whole time, and general small feeling of the bike. BUT she'd do it again. and does ride with me all the time around town. Of course you have to change your riding style to suit this. --slower takeoffs easier braking--avoids her having to work hard to stay centered on the smaller seat area. if you have a newer bike that has the mounting holes for the grab handles get them.

4- service costs: first service isn't a big one and I think it's less than 150, buts it's been awhile since i had mine so i forget.

5- 14t: the change is good for around town riding as it raises your RPMs about 500 per gear. so you are in a sweeter part of the powerband in the lower gears. but at highway it does get a bit buzzier as you are also sitting about 500RPMs higher in the range for cruising. I had to switch back out as I ride at higher speeds on the autobahn and it wasn't working for me. around town I do feel the difference but i tend to slip the clutch a bit more on takeoff and stay in first longer to avoid bogging into 2nd. This change too is about your riding style.

[asherrick]

Buying a carbon exhaust (e.g. Leo Vince or Arrow, ~$800-900), ECU reflash (from Mota-Lab, $250), and a free-flow airfilter (e.g. MWR, $115) will save you a few hundred dollars and give you even better performance than the Termi kit. The install for these pieces is not that difficult, but if you just don't want to deal with it and want a simple off-the-shelf kit, then the Termi kit is your only option. Performance-wise the biggest thing you'll notice is improved smoothness, especially in the lower RPMs.

Regarding the 14T change, I agree with everything Raux said. If you plan to do a lot of highway, stick with the 15T; if not, then it's a great option.

My wife rides 2-up on my M696 and the heat has been an issue at times. Getting a carbon exhaust will definitely solve that. Also, the best (and cheapest) upgrade I did for 2-up riding was to add a Triboseat cover to the passenger area. It's super grippy so she won't slide around on the seat. It gave her a lot more confidence.

[muskrat]

+1 on the above.  I've never run a DP ECU on any of my bikes and have found Termis for 500 to 600 bucks.  Frankly, IMO the price is not worth the "increase" in HP and torque so I chose a better way.....in my book anyway.

[Curmudgeon]

Reality check!

Aren't you 6' 4"?!  Unless your girlfriend is an 80 lb. jockey and a very good sport, you bought the wrong bike for 2-up. You DID buy a good bike for learning however and anything large enough for you +1 is going to be much heavier and far less nimble.

If she really IS a glutton for punishment, you can cheaply buy thin adhesive heat shield insulation, cut it to size and fit it to the back of your black silencer heat shield. Save the $$$ for the CF for your first set of tires and some service.

As for power, try the 14T first before you decide at your level of experience that you need more "go". Raux keeps giving this same 14T advice and fails to take into account that in NV you already have no use for 6th gear whereas he lives near an autobahn. I've got a 14T on my 796 and I still rarely see 6th! (+80 MPH is a really ugly ticket in VA where I'm living, so the bike has only seen 100 MPH once.)

Learn to ride before you take a passenger anyway. If you dump her, I guarantee she'll dump you..., and you'll learn quickly how good your liability insurance is!

Find that "winter quarters" garage in Santa Barbara too so that you can have weekend visitation privileges. 

[Raux]

Regarding the 14t vs 15t advice on a 696

14t on a 696 puts it in a buzzier range for highway speeds in the states, and screaming range for autobahn above 100 and takes the top end down to about 119mph. haven't done a top end test on the 15t and they would be different on my bike as i'm running the dp ecu and I think the max rpm is higher in 6th so it's not just a gearing question now.

if you aren't using 6th gear on the highway in the states (14t or 15t), you're wasting fuel. there's enough tq to do any amount of cruising at highway speeds.

I don't always run at 100+mph speeds and lived in the states with the bike before this and ran both sprockets there, so kinda know what I'm talking about. and also lived out in AZ and been up to LV plenty of times so know there are areas in the desert and tons of canyon runs where speeds can vary alot and gearing is an issue.

I said it depends on the rider, the roads and the patterns in the area. a commuter that is all highway, the 15t is a better option IMO. a city commuter, 14t. the 15t will save you fuel in the end. and so will staying with the stock ecu. I lost some fuel economy with the dp ecu even on the 15t.

Also riding with a passenger is a big change. you have different handling characteristics as your weight distribution has changed, your suspension needs to be changed, your stopping distances change, etc, etc. so make sure you take the time to get familiar with the bike in it's solo state, then again in your 2-up state.

i'm 5 10' 175 w/gear, wife is 5'7 <140 w/gear (could be a lot less, not divulging nor will I ask). so not a smallish couple and we fit on the bike fine. like i said her biggest complaint is the lack of something behind her made her feel insecure. I've since been looking at options like the ventura rack that has a grab rail option behind the seat.

I adjusted the rear suspension preload for us and use the damper adjustment for riding solo vs double. same for the front.
the bike went through the austrian passes with us, tank bag and backpack, with no issues. smooth as silk and we kept it below 130kph (her orders). the 14t, stock ecu handled it perfectly.

BUT I do agree that long ride 2-up on this monster isn't the best option (but it can do it). and eventually I want an ST or MTS as a tourer and keep this as a fun/commuter bike.

but I don't agree the 696 is just a learner bike. it's a light nimble bike that responds well to inputs has plenty of power to get out of trouble and like I've proven can take two full size adults on long trips. Is it the best all arounder, no. is it a power liter bike to beat anyone in a race, well no. and neither is a 796, 1100, or any other Monster for that matter.

[Curmudgeon]

Raux,

Thanks for the explanation. Just go easy on the nice young man. He's got a total of one month on a bike, any bike, and needs to learn a lot of roadcraft before he gets too much "enthusiastic advice". 

IMO he'll get a lot out of a 14T. I rode a 696 demo before ordering my 796 and found it way overgeared for 35 - 75 MPH which is mostly what we see here. I also found the 696 underpowered (insufficient torque) for my personal needs and I didn't need an 1100 nor did I need the large bore power pulses. (I prefer a "healthy" 750 for solo scrapping.)

We must have different definitions of "buzz" and "scream" although my bike is still too young to explore much 7,000+. At least on my 796 anything above 5,000 is quite smooth. Only based on my highly tuned and modified 600 Pantah, I presume it'll turn 9,000 just as smoothly as 7,000. Hope I'm not wrong about that or I WILL need a full DP kit. (NOT in the budget. )

At least we are both experienced and can agree to disagree about a few odds and ends. Give a 796 a try sometime though as it has the 1100 chassis but is still nimble and planted. My last Ducati was an early 851 from Ferracci and I don't need that anymore at my age (65), but DID want a more comfortable Pantah replacement. So far this 796 satisfies. Might still need a bit more rise though as it still bothers my left shoulder which was badly broken two years ago if I'm stuck below ~ 55 MPH for very long.

Shiny side up!

[hillbillypolack]

My 2 cents?

You purchased a premium motorcycle, correct?  Are you gonna patch, hope, and go through a series of trial-and-error pipes, ECUs and headers to get nicer sound and power increase?  Save a few bucks?  Or save a bit and get the parts that were engineered to work together, provide you with a continuous warranty and will get you those improvements from the time of installation?

Yes, I've posted it before that Termis are spendy.  BUt they allow warranty, work well for 95% of the riders here and look pretty good to boot.

Personally, I'd rather get it done the first time rather than spending money on ECU 'A', having that not work well, then spend money on PC 'B' hoping to get better gains. . .

But that's just me.  I'd rather be riding.

[mrpetebojangles]

Wow, thanks for the healthy amount of advice. I'm actually 6'7''. Tall guy. My gf is 5'11'', tall couple, but she really wants to ride with me sometime. The most we would be doing to start would be little jaunts around her quiet neighborhood. I'm sure I look a bit silly on the bike as I haven't even really seen what I look like on it? However, I feel very comfortable on it, and that's all that I can ask for.

I was very heavily considering the 796 at the time of purchase of my 696, but I'm glad I got the 696 as I was able to get a full set of gear by saving the $1500 (just got some field sheer mercury 2.0 pants today, special order, tall size :p) and the 696 in my limited usage has been plenty fast for me. Years down the road I can always sell it right and upgrade to something else? Or keep it :p I took it up and over Virginia City today. Road by TONS of HD riders as it was a beautiful day and there was an event going on up there. I rode in some staggered formations with a couple groups, by accident or not I'm not sure. Seems most bike riders in these part respect one another and get waves from most everyone regardless of the bike they're on. I'm truly in love with this machine though. I can't not wanna take it somewhere! I've started covering the brake, and also applying a 2 finger brake vs the full 4 finger brake that the MSF course taught me. I've noticed I'm getting a lot more feel by doing this and I've practice a couple quick stops going 30-50 mph and I'm able to stop pretty quickly and confidently. Anyways, I'm having the 14T installed on my first service visit, ordered the part today, and as I seldomly get up over 80, I'm hoping the extra buzz won't be unmanageable.

So far one of the greatest things about owning a monster is this forum! You guys all truly share an amazing passion towards this product and I'm proud to be part "uh da famly"

[jwoconnor]

6'7" and you ride a Monster? You need to post a picture of you on the bike.

[muskrat]

Yes, I've posted it before that Termis are spendy.  BUt they allow warranty, work well for 95% of the riders here and look pretty good to boot.

I've never seen a warranty claim denied because the pipes weren't Termis. 

[hillbillypolack]

^  You may be right.  I guess I'm just reflecting on the point that DP offers Termis as a way to honor any possible claims, and you get a decent tune.

I guess it's all in how far you choose to tune the bike, power, rideability etc.

Then again, I have to eat my words.  My 748 had an Arrows 1/2 system and a Ferracci chip.  I guess I just proved myself wrong.

[swampduc]

My friend, a local Ducati tech, says he has never seen a warranty claim denied becaus of non-termi pipes, but he has seen a claim denied because of chip modifications. He also pointed out, however, that it's in the dealer's interest not to mention such mods, because the dealer wants the work.

[Utekineir]

Damn,  I thought I was a tight fit at 6'3" ish.  Doing the comfort seat and offset adjustable pegs (msf? I forget). Have made the bike a good bit more comfortable, especially while 2up.


My bike was purchased used with the termis.  Overall it runs far better than the stock one I test rode.  The 14t sprocket was worth every penny for myself as well, since most of the driving I do is off highway.  It absolutely transformed the bike for around town (especially 2up) use.

[ChrisH]

I don't have the termi setup, but I do have slipons, air filter, and reflashed ecu as well as the 14t sprocket. I'd recommend all of these mods. I do agree, get some seat time before worrying too much about mods, but all of these mods made the bike much more fun to ride IMHO. I also have the electraeon quick throttle cam which I love as well, but it can be a bit twitchy if you are not used to quick turn throttles.

The 14t sprocket does make the bike a little more high strung I guess, I'd hesitate to call it buzzy. It's fine on the highway IMO. I just did a quick 70 mile highway ride tonight to visit some folks, and I cruised happily at around 80 in 6th gear most of the time and it was fine. It makes all around drivin much better to me, and it makes accelerating more fun in every gear, even on the highway 

Have fun on the monster! The 696 is a great bike.