Slow speed u-turn wreck ;(

[somegirl]

Sorry to hear about the wreck and the injury, hope you heal up soon.

Everyone gave you excellent technical advice for how to take those slow speed turns. 
It is always hard getting back on after a wreck when your confidence is shaken.
When you are ready, if you can find a large empty parking lot to practice in, practice slow turns.  Start off with them really wide and then gradually tighten them up as you feel more comfortable. 
It does take a while to build the confidence back but it will come back.

If you are stuck having to take a tight turn when you are not up for it or the bike isn't warm enough yet, just go ahead and put your foot down and do it that way.

Also were you wearing knee/shin guards?  If not I do highly recommend them.

[sgollapalle]

Hope you heal up soon..

It is also important to be in the correct line within the lane. For a left hand U, stay to the far right of your lane, make the turn before you reach the apex of the U, and you will exit at the far right of the lane on the other side. The closer you are to the left of the lane, the harder it will be to make the U.

A good way to learn is to go to an empty parking lot with no lamp posts/parking dividers, and practice making 8s... It will give you a good feel of what the bike can handle, and if you are in a tough spot, you can just straighten out and run wide without running into things. If you have, plastic cones, use them as markers.

I was used to riding smaller bikes which had a wider steering angle, it took me a bit to get used to the monster where the bar only turns about 20 degrees each way from the center...

[newbie_mike]

You can't lean a motorcycle at very slow speed to turn. You will lose. Keep it absolutely upright.

hmm, i don't agree with this.  Check out this post: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=50071.0

you can definitely learn to lean the bike at low speeds. 

For really slow maneuvers, it helps to keep your RPMs high (3-5k) and just slip the clutch and rear brake to manipulate speed.  this way, the engine is smoother and wont chug-chug on you, and the gyroscopic effect of the spinning motor will help balance you (ive heard, tho not sure if this is a wives-tale).

If you do need to, you can put the inner foot down and prevent the bike from tipping over (like dirt bikers like to do) --- ONLY if you are really slow or about to stop.

hope you feel better   =(

[mrpetebojangles]

Apparently I also broke my ankle. The docs thing my break looks pretty cool lol. Surgery tomorrow morning. My leg hurts like hell and the slight movement when I lift it is very awkward feeling. Doc's pretty optimistic about the outcome.

[bikepilot]

Bummer, heal up quick! 

Slow-speed turns are more about technique than outright skill, but the technique isn't obvious to a lot of folks.  Even playing with making a tight turn on your bicycle really slowly wouldn't be a bad idea.

One thing on a moto that takes some unique technique is the steering lock (which happens to be quite poor on a ducati). If you are in a lean and need to counter-act the lean, there are two main ways of doing it.  The standard, intuitive way that most riders do it is by increasing steering angle to make the bike stand up a bit more (think of it as moving the wheels more under the bike).  If you are already at full lock, this isn't an option and down you go unless... you add more power, which does the same thing.  You can also do it with weight shifting, but that's hard and not real practical on a heavy street bike.

If you are fairly new to riding, probably best to keep your turns so that they aren't at full lock and slow enough that you can dab a foot to hold the bike up if things get out of sorts.  When you have time, find an empty parking lot and practice going in circles with the bars held solidly against the lock.  This will require you use brakes/power exclusively to modulate lean and keep from falling over.  It'll be hard at first, but once you get it, it'll be easy and then you'll be able to u-turn like a mofo.

Once you get the basics down you can start playing with hanging way off to the outside (opposite of a high-speed turn) to get more lean angle for a given speed.  The more the bike leans, the tighter it will turn at a given speed.  It is also less likely to push the front end on a soft surface.  For this stuff, watch the turning video at trials training center or, if you can, watch Ryan Young's Trials Training video.  The turning part is applicable to all 2-wheeled bikes and trials guys have tight turns down to an art.

btw I compete in observed trials so making crazy-tight, balanced turns is something I know a bit about

[ManaloEA]

hmm, i don't agree with this.  Check out this post: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=50071.0

you can definitely learn to lean the bike at low speeds. 

I'm sure this took many years and many more wrecks to learn how to do that...

Wonder if there is a blooper reel with all the people that could not do it so elegantly.

[Triple J]

Damn...spiral fractures and a broken ankle from a slow speed drop. That's a serious bummer. Good luck with the healing.

What sort of boots were you wearing?

[mrpetebojangles]

I had on a pair of hightop motorcycle boots, but the bikes weight landed above the boots.

[S21FOLGORE]

While reading this thread and some other similar. Then, I thought, while there are some excellent advises around, some riding techniques  (such as this, slow speed turn) really need "visual" explanation. (you know, sometimes the words just aint' enough ...)
So, I try my best, trying to "show" (some already explained here) things with picture. Hope it helps.

Typical example of newb u-turn


What's wrong with it ?

1. turn your head (look as far forward as possible)
More than 9 out of 10 times, the newb riders are looking at too closely. (looking right front of the front tire, or a couple of feet away, too close. )
In a situation like u-turn (slow speed, full lock turn), you should be looking at the end of the turn when you start the turn.

And, TURN YOUR HEAD, not just moving eyeballs.
(when you properly turn your head, your left shoulder is down, slightly back, right shoulder slightly moves forward.
Left elbow bent slightly more. Your upper body is relaxed.

2. relax your shoulder and elbow.
If not, the bike's front end cannot turn freely, therefore, it runs wide. Not just doing u-turn, your upper body should remain relaxed while riding.



3. hold (& turn) the throttle in the right way


 Starting with little finger, then ring finger. Then, middle & index finger, thumb all should be relaxed, only lightly holding the grip. And the throttle grip should be diagonal to your hand, not 90 degree. Hold and turn the throttle like when you turn door knob.

This is a bad example. Throttle grip 90 degree to your hand. You have to bend the wrist to turn the throttle. You cannot do precise control. When you turn the throttle, your elbow and entire right arm will move. Sit on a bike without engine running, try to pull throttle cable just by 1 mm with this grip. Difficult, isn't it ?


Then, try to hold it diagonally, and turn like door nob.


And don't put all four finger on the brake lever. In this pic, index finger is placed on the lever but close to the pivot. This finger placement is not for braking. (you will fall if you pull F brake during u-turn.) It (index finger on the lever) acts as a stabilizer. Because Ducatis have rather larger throttle cam, you need to control the throttle grip really delicately.

Ok, I need to explain more, about how to use rear brake during the turn (very useful technique in many , many situations), but I have to go to work now. So I'll cover the rear brake later.

PS. Hope you heel soon

[Howie]

While reading this thread and some other similar. Then, I thought, while there are some excellent advises around, some riding techniques  (such as this, slow speed turn) really need "visual" explanation. (you know, sometimes the words just aint' enough ...)
So, I try my best, trying to "show" (some already explained here) things with picture. Hope it helps.

Typical example of newb u-turn


What's wrong with it ?

1. turn your head (look as far forward as possible)
More than 9 out of 10 times, the newb riders are looking at too closely. (looking right front of the front tire, or a couple of feet away, too close. )
In a situation like u-turn (slow speed, full lock turn), you should be looking at the end of the turn when you start the turn.

And, TURN YOUR HEAD, not just moving eyeballs.
(when you properly turn your head, your left shoulder is down, slightly back, right shoulder slightly moves forward.
Left elbow bent slightly more. Your upper body is relaxed.

2. relax your shoulder and elbow.
If not, the bike's front end cannot turn freely, therefore, it runs wide. Not just doing u-turn, your upper body should remain relaxed while riding.



3. hold (& turn) the throttle in the right way


 Starting with little finger, then ring finger. Then, middle & index finger, thumb all should be relaxed, only lightly holding the grip. And the throttle grip should be diagonal to your hand, not 90 degree. Hold and turn the throttle like when you turn door knob.

This is a bad example. Throttle grip 90 degree to your hand. You have to bend the wrist to turn the throttle. You cannot do precise control. When you turn the throttle, your elbow and entire right arm will move. Sit on a bike without engine running, try to pull throttle cable just by 1 mm with this grip. Difficult, isn't it ?


Then, try to hold it diagonally, and turn like door nob.


And don't put all four finger on the brake lever. In this pic, index finger is placed on the lever but close to the pivot. This finger placement is not for braking. (you will fall if you pull F brake during u-turn.) It (index finger on the lever) acts as a stabilizer. Because Ducatis have rather larger throttle cam, you need to control the throttle grip really delicately.

Ok, I need to explain more, about how to use rear brake during the turn (very useful technique in many , many situations), but I have to go to work now. So I'll cover the rear brake later.

PS. Hope you heel soon

I'm quite impressed with the explanation and the drawings

[mrpetebojangles]

Ok, I need to explain more, about how to use rear brake during the turn (very useful technique in many , many situations), but I have to go to work now. So I'll cover the rear brake later.

PS. Hope you heel soon

WOW, I'm really impressed. The drawings certainly go hand in hand with great advice being discussed here and I'm a bit more of a visual learner so the drawings are great. Can't wait for the 2nd set with trail braking. Great drawing!

I've been in bed for about a week now and I've had a lot of time to think about the accident. What bother's me most is that I'm not really sure what I did to make me crash. I distantly remember turning my head to the far left and looking down the street at the start of the turn, and then I was on the ground in agonizing pain. Seeing how I think I crashed in the first 1/4 of the turn, I'm assuming that I tipped over because my entry speed was too slow, it being a fairly narrow street I wanted to make sure I wasn't going too fast, I maintained my throttle steady and attempted to only slightly disengage the clutch but pulled clutch in too far, rear wheel lost power and stability was lost. I tipped. I believe I was slightly on the rear brake, at the start of the turn, until I crashed. So I'm assuming that the critical missing piece here was my inability to effectively commandeer the 1st gear in this slow turn, bike lost power, and I did not shift weight to my outer foot pegs. Things I did right, looked through the turn, wearing all of my gear - shin protection :/, maintained a relaxed torso, gripping with legs. I just cut power in the bike. Let me know if that sounds like a logical conclusion.

Puts things into a different perspective though. I really appreciated having 2 functioning legs and being able to put my own pants on for one, and being able to SLEEEEP... haha. Gf is amazing though, true ANGEL and that's what I need right now. And I need to be working to pay for this motorcycle!

I'm really afraid of experiencing this same kinda pain again/disability and I'm hoping my fear doesn't make me lockup in a similar turn.

[ManaloEA]

WOW, I'm really impressed. The drawings certainly go hand in hand with great advice being discussed here and I'm a bit more of a visual learner so the drawings are great. Can't wait for the 2nd set with trail braking. Great drawing!

I've been in bed for about a week now and I've had a lot of time to think about the accident. What bother's me most is that I'm not really sure what I did to make me crash. I distantly remember turning my head to the far left and looking down the street at the start of the turn, and then I was on the ground in agonizing pain. Seeing how I think I crashed in the first 1/4 of the turn, I'm assuming that I tipped over because my entry speed was too slow, it being a fairly narrow street I wanted to make sure I wasn't going too fast, I maintained my throttle steady and attempted to only slightly disengage the clutch but pulled clutch in too far, rear wheel lost power and stability was lost. I tipped. I believe I was slightly on the rear brake, at the start of the turn, until I crashed. So I'm assuming that the critical missing piece here was my inability to effectively commandeer the 1st gear in this slow turn, bike lost power, and I did not shift weight to my outer foot pegs. Things I did right, looked through the turn, wearing all of my gear - shin protection :/, maintained a relaxed torso, gripping with legs. I just cut power in the bike. Let me know if that sounds like a logical conclusion.

Puts things into a different perspective though. I really appreciated having 2 functioning legs and being able to put my own pants on for one, and being able to SLEEEEP... haha. Gf is amazing though, true ANGEL and that's what I need right now. And I need to be working to pay for this motorcycle!

I'm really afraid of experiencing this same kinda pain again/disability and I'm hoping my fear doesn't make me lockup in a similar turn.

Actually from your description, it sounds like you were going into the u-turn too fast, or expecting to be going fast, and therefore leaned the bike over in order to countersteer through the turn. The reason why I think this is that the bike tipped over before you had the opportunity to pull your foot off the peg, as if you expected to ride out the u-turn and did not feel the bike becoming unstable.

This is not a wisecrack, but an honest constructive criticism as I have done the same thing before except that I pinned the throttle, and the bike slid out from underneath me and did not land on my foot.

[somegirl]

I'm quitew impressed with the explanation and the drawings

+1

[S21FOLGORE]

So, as some people already mentioned, rear brake is really useful in many situations on the street.

First, try this simple experiment / practice. (Do it in a safe area, such as empty parking lot, etc.)
Start the bike, stay in 1st gear (or 2nd if it's too difficult to do it in 1st gear).
Keep the speed low, (30 MPH or less, as slow as you can go without stalling / using half clutch) maintain the same throttle opening.
Now, GENTLY apply rear brake.
At the same time, open the throttle just a little bit more, so that you can maintain the same speed WITH rear brake applying, but not too much so that you don't accelerate.

fig.1


Don't use clutch.
Can you keep the same speed while using rear brake? Then, try to apply a bit more rear brake. Don't shut off the throttle. The bike will slow down with the same throttle opening. You will notice engine rpm also drops.
Then, little less brake, the engine rpm rise and the bike will pick up speed.
DO NOT release brake pedal, keep pressing down the pedal, just change the pressure. Also, do not open / close the throttle.

Try to focus on adjusting the speed by rear brake, without opening / closing the throttle.
While doing this practice / experiment, you should be able to feel

1) this does not upset the bike's front end
2)when applying rear brake, rear end of the bike " sink" down a bit.

fig.2

Next, try to do the same slow speed adjustment by throttle on / off. Same speed as rear brake practice.

fig.3

You will notice the difference immediately.
You will feel a lot more pitching motion, front end moving up and down, unpleasant shock right after opening the throttle.

(Note : You have to do these at SLOW speed. As slow as you can go. )

Now, imagine you're dealing with this ...

fig. 4

It's downhill, and it's decreasing radius corner. You can easily tell , from the practice described above, doing throttle on / off during the turn is not a good idea.
Then, how do you take corners like this ?
(to be continued ...)

[Goat_Herder]

First of all, I just have to say that the drawings/illustration is freaking AWESOME!!!!!!  Are you an artist or graphic designer by trade?  It's great you actually took the time to think through your reply to the thread and put it on paper. 

Anyway, I am not sure if it was mentioned or not.  Aside from throttle and brake control, I thought body position is really important, at least for me it is.  During a normal speed turn, you would lean the bike, as well as your body, into the direction of the turn.  However for a slow turn, you should lean your bike slightly into the turn while your body lean the opposite direction.  Overall, your body+bike should still be balanced upright.  Keep the engine RPM up and feather the clutch to keep moving.  Sometimes I would put my inside leg down to help with balance, dirt bike style.  I know some of you might disagree with this technique but it works well for slow tight turns in the parking lot.