Winterizing with a plastic tank

[DaveTheMailman]

I've got a new 796 with a plastic tank. Gonna be snowing up here soon. Do I store it with the tank full like a metal tank or empty. I've got no access to non ethanol gas.

[Curmudgeon]

Where are you "up there"? Fill the tank with 260 GT if there's a location anywhere close to you. It's stabilized as well.
http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/260GT100Locations/

[Triple J]

I'd leave it empty.

[DaveTheMailman]

I'm in upstate NY, near Albany. There is a gas station not too far from me that sells racing fuel that's 112 octane. It's like 9 bucks a gallon though. Don't know how long it's been sittin in their tank. I can't imagine they sell a lot of it. If I store it empty I might be able to talk my wife into letting me keep my bike in the house instead of out in the cold garage out back.

[Curmudgeon]

112 octane isn't what you need and may even be oxygenated and leaded. $9- is about right for race gas, but you want the unleaded 100 non-oxygenated variety. Maybe some performance car or bike places near you have it. There are several other brands out there besides Sunoco too. VP comes to mind. All roughly 100 octane.

Next best option might be to buy fresh premium and add both pink AND blue Stabil to it. You can't really overtreat and water won't be an issue.

I'm personally not a big fan of leaving tanks with pumps and filters, rubber gaskets and all dry over a long period once they've been in use. That too can cause ugly problems.

When I lived in NJ, the bike tanks always wintered full. Never had this PA6 issue to deal with before I'll admit but all those bikes had zero issues in spring with race gas or Stabil in the tanks. Your choice.

[He Man]

rumor has it.... its the ethanol that causes the tank to expand...mainly because ethanol retains water from the air much easier. I find that if i keep gas running through my tank (my old one atleast) it doesnt swell. but if i let it sit for some time with a full tank and humid air, it will swell.


So my advise is to siphon the gas out, run it till it dies and leave the gas cap open so evaporate all the gasoline and then store it dry.

[Triple J]

If you're really worried about the hoses and gaskets at the bottom, just leave a tiny bit in the tank so they're covered.

Either way, run some stabilizer thru it so the hoses and such that you don't drain have satbilized gas in them.

[Curmudgeon]

If you use this x2 along with regular Stabil, http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx water should be no issue and a full tank mostly negates any condensation in the first place. If this fails, then you know it's the ethanol itself rather than the water which attacks PA6 tanks.

Thankfully, for me no issue as I have access to 92 - 93 ethanol-free fuel for now and 260 GT indefinitely, so my tank will be full over winter as usual.

[DucNaked]

If you use this x2 along with regular Stabil, http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx water should be no issue and a full tank mostly negates any condensation in the first place. If this fails, then you know it's the ethanol itself rather than the water which attacks PA6 tanks.

Thankfully, for me no issue as I have access to 92 - 93 ethanol-free fuel for now and 260 GT indefinitely, so my tank will be full over winter as usual.

Is there a reason you use such high octane fuel (other than its ethanol-free)?

[ducatiz]

112 octane isn't what you need and may even be oxygenated and leaded. $9- is about right for race gas, but you want the unleaded 100 non-oxygenated variety. Maybe some performance car or bike places near you have it. There are several other brands out there besides Sunoco too. VP comes to mind. All roughly 100 octane.

Next best option might be to buy fresh premium and add both pink AND blue Stabil to it. You can't really overtreat and water won't be an issue.

I'm personally not a big fan of leaving tanks with pumps and filters, rubber gaskets and all dry over a long period once they've been in use. That too can cause ugly problems.

When I lived in NJ, the bike tanks always wintered full. Never had this PA6 issue to deal with before I'll admit but all those bikes had zero issues in spring with race gas or Stabil in the tanks. Your choice.

ALl of the race gas suppliers have the lead formulations marked and you can look online to see which ones have the dreaded metal in them:

http://www.bazellracefuels.com/racingfuels.htm

THis link is a good one too because it shows RM/2, RON and MON for a lot of the fuels.  Ducatis come with the manual saying "95 RON" only and this gives you an idea what RON compares to pump octane in the USA.

However, my S2R did not come with a catalyst, so I'm not sure it would bother anything.  Pretty much anything before 2005 or so didn't have one -- check the website.  If it has a Euro2 emissions spec = no catalyst.  Euro3 started phasing in 2005-2006 depending on the model.  I believe the Multistroodles got them first in 04 or 05

[Curmudgeon]

ducatiz,

For what it's worth, my 796 manual reads:

"Unleaded fuel with 95 fuel octane rating (at least)" and

"Fuel system
SIEMENS indirect electronic injection.
Throttle body diameter:
45 mm
Injectors per cylinder: 1
Holes per injector: 8
Fuel supply: 95-98 RON."

For catalyst it reads:
"Exhaust system
Equipped with catalytic converter in compliance with Euro 3
emission regulations.
USA model: not catalyzed."

Since ~ 1974 I've been running CAM II Unleaded mixes in all the bikes. I used to have a CAM II chart/graph on the wall of my old garage which allowed quick calculation of effective R+M/2 with various percentages and various pump octanes. Sadly it didn't make the move with me. Another complication with pump gas in the U.S.; sometimes the research octane in one "93 premium" fuel is two points lower than another "93 premium", e.g. 96 vs 98. Just to confuse matters of course.

If nothing else I know the CAM II unleaded has a wonderful, toxic additive package which keeps fuel systems pristine. Great for glue-sniffers too.  Usually I run a mix with a target of 98 or 99 research octane. Beyond 102 I find even my vehicles with knock sensors don't benefit much, but they do love 100!

It would be great to have a fuel thread but we'd need a refinery lab technician on the DMF to compare the additive packages used by the various major oil companies. From experience I know which to use and which to avoid based on fuel system problems we used to see in our dealerships.

[thought]

non-ethanol gas = fill it up

ethanol = leave it dry

best idea, drain the tank, wash it out, caswell it during your winter down time and not worry about tank expansion anymore.  it's what i did last winter when i got my 796.  there are a lot of good instructions on how best to do it on this site if you do a search.

[Curmudgeon]

Is there a reason you use such high octane fuel (other than its ethanol-free)?

Usually I mix it to raise the octane of the pump gas I buy 1 - 3 points and to get the benefit of the additive package. If I couldn't feel any difference, I wouldn't bother too often. All but one of my bikes requires or can benefit from 98 research octane

[ducatiz]

For catalyst it reads:
"Exhaust system
Equipped with catalytic converter in compliance with Euro 3
emission regulations.
USA model: not catalyzed."

that's very interesting.  i find it hard to believe that EPA did not harmonize with Euro3 on the issue of catalysts for bikes by now.  the general rule (I thought) was that if the bike was Euro3 then it had catalysts!

**edit

The online version of the 2011 796 manual says the exhaust is catalyzed.. page 118  (spelling below is verbatim copy, really gives me a nostalgic feeling for the old Cagiva manuals)

Link: download manual

E
Exhaust system
Equipped with catalityc converter.
Colour schemes
Ducati Anniversary red code 473.101 (PAL);
Clear lacquer, code 228.880 (PPG);
Red frame and black rims.
Arctic White Semigloss
Dual primer Artic White code L2920057 (Lechler);
Base Pearl white Ducati SF code L2909004 (Lechler);
Clear matt lacquer 2K code 923I0652 (Palinal);
Red frame and black rims.
Diamond Black Semigloss
Base primer 2K black code 54M22705 (Akzo Nobel);
Base Diamond Black code 57E22714 (Akzo Nobel);
Clear matt lacquer 2K code 923I1281

[Curmudgeon]

The online version of the 2011 796 manual says the exhaust is catalyzed.. page 118  (spelling below is verbatim copy, really gives me a nostalgic feeling for the old Cagiva manuals)

Hmmm... In the pdf I downloaded for ease of reading on pp. 116 and in my hard copy on pp. 118 it says what I copied and pasted above, namely "USA model - non-catalysed". Go figure! Want a copy?

Isn't Xerox doing the manuals now?