Ducati ST2/ST3/ST4 thoughts

[Curmudgeon]

My new bike came in today!!!!
As stated previously, it's an '02 ST4s.

Norfolk, eh? My son in Richmond, Bon Air bought a yellow one 2 - 3 months ago with 12K and recent belts and valve check. He's 6' 3"+ and 265# and much prefers it to the R1150RT he had for a couple of years. Go figure! Loves the engine and the high-speed cruise. He replaced the 1/4" riser with a 1" and is happy. The bike was mostly stock and is clean; Sargent saddle and heated grips. The shield doesn't bother him and he'd gripe if it did. Rather than do the headlight kit, he's doing the little projector lights which he had on the fork legs of his R1150RT. Neat but can't recall what they're called.

He was experiencing a front brake "judder" which he attempted to correct with a pad change. Better but still unacceptable. Then he swapped out the Michelins which were worn for some Diablo Rossos because he liked mine. Still there. Then he swapped out the front wheel bearings and replaced the head bearings with some tapered jobs. MUCH better. In spring he'll probably do the rotors as it can't be anything else.

He hasn't played much with the Ohlins yet but will probably get Donnie to check it out the next time I have to run up to Duc Pond. Do you get up to Richmond for "Bikes in the Bottom"?

William

[Bun-bun]

I've heard other ST owners complain about brake judder. The consensus of the Ducati.ms crowd seems to be to open the rotor buttons slightly, or go to a floating rotor.

I'm 6'2" and 195, but as I said, that was a VERY preliminary report. I literally got it off the truck at 1pm today, and have only put <10 miles on it, as I wanted to change the oil and inspect the bike completely before I put in any serious seat time. I belong to a local Jewish motorcycle club, mostly Harley riders, and we get together most weekends for a ride. It's not unusual for us to put a couple of hundred miles behind us on a ride, so I'll have plenty of opportunity to see what I let myself in for.

[Curmudgeon]

 

Harley riders? You'll have long waits at stoplights and turns. I've got a hard time keeping my 796 below 70 MPH and that '02 ST4s is a rocket. Miles will be no issue. Son wanted to take it to Barber but had a conflict with another auction this year. (Last year he did the "color announcing" for Betor however Betor was bought out by RM. http://www.batorauctions.com/results-barber2010.html)

I know he did the recommended stuff with the stock rotors when he replaced the pads. He'll do a rotor upgrade in the spring more than likely. I mentioned the head bearings because they were definitely related to the judder on this particular bike. No symptoms like clunking. Replacing them with new tapered bearings corrected 90% of his "judder".

Since you are both about the same height, these are the risers he installed. 1" just fits with some rearranging. http://www.shop.bevelheaven.com/detail.aspx?ID=1400

Have a blast!

[Desmo Demon]

Metal plate in OEM headlight - Yes, you can remove it, but it doesn't really make much of a noticeable difference.

Charging system - I bought my '98 ST2 new off the showroom floor and the '98 regulator location is in a sorry location that doesn't provide any flow. The first one fried at 11k, the second one (same location) fried 4k later, and the relocated/aftermarket one has lasted 38k miles so far. The OEM stator finally fried at 52k miles.

Valve adjustments - They are easy on the ST2 and you don't even have to remove the airbox or radiator to do it. As with any 2V Duc, the first 12k-18k miles are crucial, then, the valves seem to settle down. I only check the valves on my ST2 every 12k miles, now, and never have any issues. I do readjust the tension of the timing belts at 6k, though, as they get a little loose around the 11k mark and can slap the timing belt cover when cold and under deceleration.

I have no brake jutter with my '98 ST2. I had the spongey front brake feel, but I upgraded the master cylinder from the coffin-type to the remote reservoirs of a 2002 ST2/ST4s bike and it has been great. Switching to EBC HH pads makes a huge difference, too.

Item of interest.....I have 53k miles on my original clutch. The tabs are beat to hell and it is a little noisey, but it still works great. I was afraid it needed to be replaced a few years ago, and I have a complete clutch assembly sitting on my workbench. It's been sitting there for the last 21k miles.

[Bun-bun]

Now that I've put in some seat time, I thought I'd share my impressions of the ST4s.
     I've always been a fan of that dry clutch rattle, and this one rattles just fine. Beyond that, the power is addictive. The motor spins up quickly, and delivery is linear from 3k rpm up to about 10k, where it abruptly runs out of steam until you click into the next gear and the fun continues. Care must be taken when moving off from a standing start, as letting out the clutch too quickly is guaranteed to send the front wheel skyward (Unless you're into that kind of hooliganism, of course.  )  First gear is good to around 30mph, with second taking you to about 55, after that, it just keeps pulling well into triple digits. Sixth gear is a good highway gear, with the engine turning just a tick over 3k at 70mph. The engine heats quickly, and stabilizes at about 195-205 when moving. The fairings direct a good bit of hot air across your legs, especially the right calf. It hasn't been a problem, since the temps have been cool, but we'll see how bitterly I pregnant dog about it next summer when it hits 90+. Fuel mileage has been right around 40mpg so far.
      The front twin Brembo calipers provide decent stopping power. This is a very good thing, since the rear Brembo is mainly useful for keeping the rear in line, and not much else.
     Handling is good, considering I haven't had a chance to dial in the suspension yet. It can only get better as I get it dialed in, but for now, it handles like my Monster with my wife on the back. This is not as bad as it may sound, since the ST weighs about 470lbs, which is about what the Monster weighs with my wife on it. 
     Body position is more upright than the Monster, but not by that much. I've added Heli-bars, which raise the grips about an inch and a half, and my back thanks me for it every time I ride more than an hour at a stretch. I've left the pegs stock for now, although kits are available to lower them by an inch or so. We'll see how much highway riding I do, as opposed to twisties, and that will determine whether I want the control of the stock position versus the comfort of letting my legs stretch a bit more.
     I bought the bike from Moto-Forza in Escondido CA and had it shipped to Norfolk VA after talking with Balz Renggli, the sales manager there, and being assured that the bike was in good shape, the maintenance had been done, and the tires etc. were decent. The bike took 29 days to arrive, which I was prepared for. What I was not prepared for was the (small) dent in the tank, the scratches in the paint, the missing front sprocket cover, the squared off tires, the fishhooked sprockets, or the fact that the adjustment screws for the TPS and throttle bodies still had the factory paint on them, which likely means that those maintenance items were never addressed in the bikes 9 years and 26k+ miles. I also was not prepared to be ignored by Balz and the rest of the sales people at Moto Forza, with phone calls being dodged and never returned numerous times since the bike arrived. Fortunately, I like working on bikes, and basically know what I'm doing, so the minor problems the bike arrived with are being addressed, and spring will see it in the correct state of tune for some nice long weekends, it just irks me that a supposedly reputable company would misrepresent a bike just to make a sale. Oh well, caveat emptor, I suppose
     At any rate, I like the ST4s quite a lot, and believe it will be a worthy addition to the stable.

[Frisco]

I've read a few threads here on specifics related to these models, but I'm looking for general feedback and thoughts. I currently have an '07 M695 that I enjoy, but am looking for something more geared towards comfort, commuting and light touring -more range and hard bags particularly. I've also decided that for the area of Colorado where I live, air-cooled isn't optimal.

I understand the general differences; valves, suspension, etc. but would like input on what to look for as far maintenance costs, must have's, nice features, etc. from model to model or year to year. Or conversely, which/what to avoid. I'm also curious about the Triumph ST's, as they look pretty similar, and I like the BMW Dakar's.

Any feedback/thoughts welcome!

I had a 2005 FJR that was totaled (not by me) and found a great deal on a 2006 ST3 with 29 miles and this was in 2009 - a guy bought it for his wife and she said no way.  Anyhow I rode it for 2 months and hated it. Horrible power compared to what I had been used to - way too light for any highway touring (cross winds and rough ride) in my opinion and the main reason was it was not meant for two up. Aslo a small tank for any distance riding - I had been used to getting 225 miles per tank. My personal opinion is that you have to decide what kind of riding you are going to be doing the most of - if it's longer distance vs short hauls on twisties one-up, etc. I also had a problem with my wrists going numb but that could have been fixed with different grips. Now the ST4 has much more power - to be honest the FJR was in my opinion the best overall bike I had owned (maybe a dozen of my lifetime) - it would keep up with the sport bikes (very quick) but it was heavier so it doesn;t turn like the S4RS I have now (I also have a Stratoliner for touring and 2-up riding). The maintence on the FJR is practically nothing - in 20K miles the only thing I did was replace fork seals and oil changes - shaft vs chain is nice on a tourer also. Might want to take a look at one.

[twolanefun]

Well I stumbled onto this discussion, so I'll give you a different perspective. As far as I'm concerned there is only one sport tourer out there better than my ST3 and that would be a MTS1200, except it's too tall for me, with a 30" inseam. All of the other so called sport tourer's need to go on a diet IMHO. My 04' ST3 has 43-44k+ miles on it, I bought it new, I've done plenty of 1,200 - 1,500 mile weekends on it with and without my GF on board. I tend to run on two lane back roads, twisty of course, and occasionally run on the interstate, such as going to the INDY GP, once I get to Columbus, Ohio from Virginia not much choice. The ST3 has all the power anyone needs and it's got the right torque. With stock gearing it's doing 86MPH in 6th gear at 5K, that is why I recommend going up 3 teeth on the rear sprocket. At Mid-Ohio my GF and I were doing 135+ on back straight with full luggage. My GF and I have never had an issue with packing for an extended trip, the 2 side case and top case hold more than enough. The only complaint I have with my ST3 is I wish it had ABS. If you want a great bike to run through the mountains all day say from No. Virginia down to Barber Motosports without getting on the interstate but know if you do the bike can handle it, the ST3 is up to the task. If you want to run all day on the interstate and with an occasional detour on some twistys get a BMW, FJ, or a Concours and work on your upper body muscles cause you'll need them to throw those bikes around. As for the ST4, motor is wrong for the job IMHO, if you want to sport tour on a Superbike buy a 999. Just MHO - Gene

[Armor]

I had a 2005 FJR that was totaled (not by me) and found a great deal on a 2006 ST3 with 29 miles and this was in 2009 - a guy bought it for his wife and she said no way.  Anyhow I rode it for 2 months and hated it. Horrible power compared to what I had been used to - way too light for any highway touring (cross winds and rough ride) in my opinion and the main reason was it was not meant for two up. Aslo a small tank for any distance riding - I had been used to getting 225 miles per tank. My personal opinion is that you have to decide what kind of riding you are going to be doing the most of - if it's longer distance vs short hauls on twisties one-up, etc. I also had a problem with my wrists going numb but that could have been fixed with different grips. Now the ST4 has much more power - to be honest the FJR was in my opinion the best overall bike I had owned (maybe a dozen of my lifetime) - it would keep up with the sport bikes (very quick) but it was heavier so it doesn;t turn like the S4RS I have now (I also have a Stratoliner for touring and 2-up riding). The maintence on the FJR is practically nothing - in 20K miles the only thing I did was replace fork seals and oil changes - shaft vs chain is nice on a tourer also. Might want to take a look at one

An ST3 has more horsepower than a Stratoliner and is almost half the weight.

[Frisco]

I had a 2005 FJR that was totaled (not by me) and found a great deal on a 2006 ST3 with 29 miles and this was in 2009 - a guy bought it for his wife and she said no way.  Anyhow I rode it for 2 months and hated it. Horrible power compared to what I had been used to - way too light for any highway touring (cross winds and rough ride) in my opinion and the main reason was it was not meant for two up. Aslo a small tank for any distance riding - I had been used to getting 225 miles per tank. My personal opinion is that you have to decide what kind of riding you are going to be doing the most of - if it's longer distance vs short hauls on twisties one-up, etc. I also had a problem with my wrists going numb but that could have been fixed with different grips. Now the ST4 has much more power - to be honest the FJR was in my opinion the best overall bike I had owned (maybe a dozen of my lifetime) - it would keep up with the sport bikes (very quick) but it was heavier so it doesn;t turn like the S4RS I have now (I also have a Stratoliner for touring and 2-up riding). The maintence on the FJR is practically nothing - in 20K miles the only thing I did was replace fork seals and oil changes - shaft vs chain is nice on a tourer also. Might want to take a look at one

An ST3 has more horsepower than a Stratoliner and is almost half the weight.

not my Strat - with pipes PCII and open airbox 98HP and 121# of torgue - now power to weight is a whole different story but I didn't get a Strat to ride as a sport tourer - thats why I have the S4RS - if I wanted one that did both well I probably would have gone back to an FJR 

[twolanefun]

not my Strat - with pipes PCII and open airbox 98HP and 121# of torgue - now power to weight is a whole different story but I didn't get a Strat to ride as a sport tourer - thats why I have the S4RS - if I wanted one that did both well I probably would have gone back to an FJR  

Shame you did not step up to a Victory Sorry could not resist. All this talk about HP, Power to Weight etc.. Truth be told my little M900 has more than enough out in the twistys, even running at 7/10 a M696 will stay up with a S4RS, my M900 or S2R, on the back two lane roads assuming staying 10-15 over posted. I recall one trip over to Ohio where one of the riders had a heavily modified S4RS 6' and a little overweight and another rider on a 696, about 5'8" and maybe 150lbs. Well the rider on the S4RS spent all day trying to stay up with my little M900 and lose the 696, he ended up a little frustrated but it was a good ride and we all had a good time discussing it at the bar at the end of the day - Gene

[Frisco]

Shame you did not step up to a Victory Sorry could not resist. All this talk about HP, Power to Weight etc.. Truth be told my little M900 has more than enough out in the twistys, even running at 7/10 a M696 will stay up with a S4RS, my M900 or S2R, on the back two lane roads assuming staying 10-15 over posted. I recall one trip over to Ohio where one of the riders had a heavily modified S4RS 6' and a little overweight and another rider on a 696, about 5'8" and maybe 150lbs. Well the rider on the S4RS spent all day trying to stay up with my little M900 and lose the 696, he ended up a little frustrated but it was a good ride and we all had a good time discussing it at the bar at the end of the day - Gene

10-15 over posted?? when we do a spirited ride we usually at least double the posted limit on the twisties - a really good rider on a small underpowered bike will blow away a regular rider on a sportbike - most people don't ride anywhere near the capability of their machine (me included) as far as the Vic they are nice but pricey - I probably paid a good $8-9K less on a leftover 'new' Strat

[twolanefun]

10-15 over posted?? when we do a spirited ride we usually at least double the posted limit on the twisties

Got it, double posted, ~110MPH. That will get you and your bike locked up in my neck of the woods. - Gene

[Frisco]

Got it, double posted, ~110MPH. That will get you and your bike locked up in my neck of the woods. - Gene

fortunately the LEO's aren't out much on the back roads here - too much territory for them to cover - besides they go after the sport idiots doing wheelies on the highways - also we're not doing that EVERY time we go out 

[Raux]

So noticed this is an old thread, I originally posted on it in 2011... look at me now;)